Diving Deeper Into Skin Walker Ranch

All >> [music] >> right, mystery wire with George Knap rocks on. I’m Ron Futrell. Carlos Samson and John Forest with us helping out technically to get this show uh rocking and rolling. Now, okay, for context on a lot of this stuff that we’re going to talk about, you can watch the earlier shows that we’ve done to be able to understand. And by the way, context is important certainly with this to be able to figure out all the people that we’re talking about in this case. And doc, Dr.
Jim Lassky, let’s take a picture of him in his early days back in DC. A young man there. He’s, as he says, much older now and wants to get a lot of this material and stuff out. He’s using you as a conduit to do that and his books.
But you you met him 2018 through Harry Reid. Is that correct?
>> That’s right. Yeah. Senator Reid invited me to DC. I had a feeling I was going to meet Latsky. I had heard his name many times in hushed tonesuh from people associated with the OSAP program but had never spoken directly to him or or met him and met him there that day. I was kind of like playing spy. I changed hotels. I changed cabs in case somebody was following me. And uh and at that meeting he gave me this lowdown on the OSAP program and my mind was blown because I I knew that they were focusing on on Skidark Ranch. I had no idea how big the program was and it turned out the ranch was a very special place and it inspired uh this the larger study in a way but it was only one small focus of what was now the largest acknowledged UFO investigation ever conducted for the US government. I mean 50 full-time investigators plus other employees many times larger than say Project Blue Book.
And it’s been 20 years since The Hunt for the Skinwalker came out and the books that you’ve written on this topic.
Skinwalker Ranch in northeast Utah. Uh they’re tucked away about 500 acres or so where >> you’ve been a few times. I’ve not been.
I got to go sometime.
>> Yeah, we’ll talk about that. I’ve been there a couple dozen times. Oh, yeah.
I’ve stayed there. I’ve stayed overnight there many times. And uh I have never seen anything strange. I’m one of the few people that hasn’t seen something strange at the at the ranch. But nearly everyone who goes there and spends a great deal of time has a chance of bringing something home whether they want to or not. I’m not talking about rocks or souvenirs. I’m talking about something called hitchhikers which is sort of an attachment that comes along with people who spend any time on the ranch.
>> Oh, and we’re going to talk about that later in this show. Um the hitchhikers number one also craft that Dr. Jim Lowsky has seen that the USA has in its possession. A lot of people have talked about that, wondered about that. You had Bob Lazar early on talking about craft that he saw at Area 51. This was 1989.
Yeah. When when he broke that story, you can see our episode one to find out more on that. But he talked about I talked about the large area and you you talk about Skinwalker Ranch there about 500 acres but Native Americans have lived there for years obviously in the much wider area and Dr. Lowsky talks about how he met with them talked to them and found an enormous amount of information from the people who are who who don’t don’t have the same inhibitions that we might have. They’re going to tell him what they’ve seen over the years, decades, centuries, and what their forefathers have seen. Here’s that interview.
>> And we noticed that Native Americans were much more open about describing phenomenon, but it was generally because I think it’s generally because they had large amounts of relatives, family members, friends, also witnesses. So they were never I don’t remember a case where they were ever unconfirmed.
Uh there was always something that there was someone else who saw the same thing either simultaneously or later on. So they were more open. But uh there were others um for example the collision of the of the blue ball with uh or multiple blue balls with a uh individual who was uh driving through the woods at a relatively high speed. Perhaps an unintentional hit or not serious health reasons. But when gently pushed from their uh uh uh uh child who was in the car too, you have young adult. Uh you heard that there were paranormal events starting up at their place.
>> Maybe I don’t want to go there now.
[laughter] Maybe I’m thinking about having second thoughts about northeast Utah right now.
My wife was born in Logan, so not too far from there. So, so I know the area be beautiful, gorgeous area.
>> Yes.
>> But what do you think about what he said there certainly and interviewing some of the Native Americans?
>> Couple of things there. So, you know, the the purpose of OAP, the DIA study was really about UFOs. It’s a UFO investigation. We wanted to know, they wanted to know, are these things a threat? They’ve been seen all over the world for centuries. Are they a threat to to humanity, to to the United States?
Um, and I think they basically figured out and answered that. But more importantly, they wanted to figure out the technology. How can these machines do what they do and can we duplicate it?
That was the main focus of the program.
But as part of that, they were also studying the effects on humans. When humans come into contact with UFOs, how does it affect them physically? A lot of times what they found out is they people are harmed. They’re they have physical injuries. They develop very strange immune deficiency diseases. The kind of diseases that pop up one in a million kind of things. people who see UFOs or come into contact with them got them a lot more frequent. And then as well they wanted to see what psychological effects. So when Latsky started looking at Skinwalker Ranch and talking to the guys from Biglo’s organization NIDS, he recognized that there were a lot of people who brought something home with him that we refer to as hitchhikers, some kind of an attachment. Many of the strangest things that happened at the ranch and in that area of the Uenta Basin had nothing to do with UFOs. They happened after people saw UFOs and suddenly they’re seeing monsters, creatures that don’t exist, what you’d call werewolves, things of that sort.
The ranchers who had been on the property when Bigalow bought it, they lasted only 20 months. They were bedeled by paranormal phenomena, trickster activity like, you know, the wife would who’s a vice president of a bank, she’d go shopping, bring the groceries home, take the food out of the bags, put it in the closet, leave the room, and all the stuff was back in the bags again. or the rancher itself. He’s using a post hole digger to dig holes for the ranch for fences on that property. And he takes a break, wipes his brow, sips some water, turns around that the post hole digger is gone. They find it three weeks later, 50, 75 feet up in a cottonwood tree.
Trickster activity like that drove them crazy. They felt like they were always being watched by some sort of an intelligence there. Latsky wanted to know, is that a byproduct of UFOs, or is it some sort of a weapon system that that’s intended to make people feel crazy, become delusional? He referenced the two blue orbs that that was not in the in the ranch. That was in a in the northeast. I won’t say if it’s Washington or Oregon, but way up there.
A professional person driving with their kid through the night through this dark forest see these blue orbs over in the side in a field. And as soon as the youngster referenced it and said, “Hey, mom, dad, look at that over there.” These things paid attention to him, flew at the car, entered the car, entered the body of the driver who immediately felt sick. Uh that person gets home later and becomes seriously ill. Two, two of the physicians who were part of the OSAP program started studying them and for the next two years monitored very serious health consequences.
>> When we come back, we’re going to have more specific. Wow. Okay. more specifics on exactly what was seen, what some of the people said they saw there and some of the craft that that he saw. Jim Lassky, um, and and George Nav, we’re so glad to have you here with us. Fresh off your it wasn’t that long ago testimony before Congress.
>> No, a couple months ago, >> a couple months ago that you testified on a lot of these issues, related issues before Congress. More mystery wire with George Knap when we return.
All >> [music] >> right, mystery wire with George Nap.
Now, the TV show. Okay, a lot of lot of stuff to get. We we could sit up here and talk for hours and get all this done, but we we’ve got a half hour limit on these shows that we’re going to put them out for you. And again, the book, let’s put it up there. Uh Dr. Jim Lassky, new insights. Okay, tell me about the cover of this book before we go into the question. You asked him about details. That looks like a triangle to me, but you’re telling me it’s not. Hold on a second.
>> It’s a a quadrangle there. Jim Latsky told me he had asked his AI system to design a cover with a triangle on it. AI gave him a quadrangle. That’s four-sided. It’s not three-sided if you look at really closely. Yeah, it is.
Maybe AI knows something we don’t know.
I don’t know. [laughter] >> Figure figure that out and put up a new insights ju just released and that’s one of the reasons that we’re doing a lot on him because disclosure by the government very important. He’s been the he’s been the main guy behind a lot of the threat assessment, a lot of the UFO, the paranormal stuff that the government has been working on uh for years behind the scenes without our knowledge. And one of the things, let’s go straight to this where George, you’re asking the questions about some of the specifics of what they actually saw at Skinw Walker Ranch, and it speaks for itself. Let’s go.
But the fact that some of these are physical, I mean the the there are measurable physical effects from some of these encounters that for example the the one investigator who saw he and his family saw this werewolf thing. I mean it was physically inact interacting with the environment. It made things move, right?
>> And it also uh the the one here in the Washington area uh and that’s why you have to say paranormal. I mean, what did it get in a train or plane and come to to come to Washington? Uh, it left deep scratch marks on the tree it was uh resting against. Uh, there was physical evidence and there is also out in the surrounding areas and on the ranch physical evidence. There’s no two ways about that.
>> U, can you share with us a brief synopsis of two particular incidents that are not as well known as some of the other things that happen at the ranch? One is the stick ban. What was that about?
>> Well, this came directly from the the mouth of the ranch manager when I paid my first visit. She said, “Oh, by the way, uh” and this was uh after she was describing other things. The stick man, she said, would appear in the living room and move over to the dining room where we were sitting close by, but would suddenly appear, walk over, and she said, and I questioned whether I would be scared or not, but it’s very thin black stick man. And it seemed to be only interested in what she or her husband were doing.
No aggression, no quick movements, just coming over and basically looking over their shoulder.
>> Uh, the monarch butterfly.
The monarch butterfly she described as being a shock to her. She went back into the bedroom, which she showed me the area, and she said she saw a butterfly flying in uh from the outside toward the window. Uh, the thing is the window was closed. definitely closed. And as it came and went through the glass, and I’m saying went through, it went right through the glass, fluttered over and landed on a chest of drawers and then it casually fluttered back out right through the glass.
A lot to unpack there. A lot to unpack.
I I want to go back, okay, the stick man and the and the monarch butterfly. But back to back to the werewolf thing. Now, this guy goes, from what I understand, this guy goes, one of the government workers, Skinwalker Ranch, has his apparition, sees the werewolf, goes back home, and he’s got a hitchhiker. The guy, whatever this was, followed him back that even his family, he didn’t talk about it here. You’ve mentioned it to me, his family members saw it.
>> Yeah. So, you know, the hitchhiker phenomenon, that’s what it’s been called. It’s an attachment. So you go to the ranch, you encounter weird stuff there, and it follows you home. There were five intelligence officers during the OAP study who went to the ranch. All five of them had experiences on the ranch, and all five of those had this thing follow him home. One of these guys didn’t even tell his family about what he had encountered at the property because it’s classified. He couldn’t tell them. And they start seeing things.
It spread to his family almost almost like a virus. They would see balls of light inside their houses spinning around. They would see these huge dark humanoid shapes standing at the foot of their bed. Then they saw a werewolf, a a werewolf, a wolf standing on two legs.
The wife saw it first leaning, holding its arms up like this and leaning on a tree. The kids and the wife saw it the next day and it left these deep claw marks in the tree outside their house.
It was physical and also non-physical.
How does it get there from the ranch to the to the uh this home in the Washington DC area? It’s crazy except the the credibility of the people who reported it and it lasts for years. It stays with a family for years and even spreads like a virus to people around them that they know.
>> And so again, emphasize he he didn’t talk he couldn’t talk to his family about this and they’re having these now they’re having these apparitions. Is that the right word? Is it okay to call them that? I don’t apparitions, but they’re physical and non-physical.
>> They looked real.
>> Well, they are real.
>> They saw them real.
>> Yeah, they are real. If they all see it, and it leaves physical marks. It’s real, you know, and and a lot of the things that happened at the property were like apparitions. They could be physical or non-physical. They never repeated the same thing. Nothing ever happened the same. A lot of it was like trickster activity, almost to generate a reaction.
Some of the things that they saw on the property, the ranchers who lived there before Biglo got there seemed designed to generate fear as if these phenomena fed on fear of some sort. Um there were things that were seen by the NID scientists. You know, these are PhD physicists who saw this stuff. Uh and it followed them home. It followed Bigalow home. It followed Colum Keller home. It followed me home. You know, it’s been in my home as well.
>> You felt it.
>> I I’ve never seen anything. My wife My wife did.
>> Wife has seen it.
>> Yeah. Okay. But it didn’t surprise you or her didn’t know the stories.
>> Well, it certainly she’d heard some of the stories, but it surprised her when it actually physically happened, you know, twice.
>> What what’s the the ranch now is in the hands of who no longer Bigalow used to be. Let’s go back in Mormon church history, Church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints, the Ballard property.
And that’s a that’s a famous name within the church um that Melvin Ballard that owned it, an apostle, and then it’s gone over the years. Myers. It was a Myers family. It was originally three homesteads that were combined into one ranch. Uh I haven’t ever revealed the the names of the people who lived there before Bigalow uh bought it, but it’s out there. People have figured it out.
They were very credible people who had incredible experiences. And after living on what though was going to be their dream property, they wanted out and they got out. Bigalow also wanted it off his plate because it followed him home. It it affected his wife and his family. And I think uh Brandon Fugal, a company called Adamantium, bought it and took it over. They’ve been doing a great job of carrying on the investigation, but they’ve seen some pretty strange stuff themselves. And you can see that on their TV show, The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch on History Channel.
>> I’ll pass on the road trip.
>> Yeah, >> I’ll go to Moab. Moab’s beautiful. And I doesn’t carry the >> No hitchhikers.
>> Doesn’t carry the same, if you will, hitchhikers. I’m I’m fine with that and hearing the stories certainly and being amazed. Okay, when we come back, we’re going to talk uh about some craft that Dr. Lowsky has seen. Alien craft I think is going to be the heart of the matter here to this episode and disclosure with the government and that sort of stuff when we return to Mystery Wire with George N.
[music] Okay, we’ve been hearing from Dr. Jim Lacsky. fascinating interview with some of the details he has and working on the threat assessment with the federal government on a on a confidential program to try to figure out what the threat could possibly be from the paranormal from UFOs, UAPs, and all of those u different phenomenon that we’re seeing. Certainly, Skinwalker Ranch is crucial to this because he spent time there. a lot of lot of talk about possible craft that the government has in its possession. And you started I’m gonna say you started this discussion, George, with Bob Lazar now 35 years ago here in Las Vegas when he’s talking about Area 51 and some of the craft that he has seen there. People question you what you’ve gone through, what he has gone through over that time has been phenomenal. Not always good certainly.
Uh, but now you asked the question, we’re going to jump right into it. You asked the question to Dr. Lasskkey about aircraft. Does the government have aircraft in its possession that they have not told us about? Here you go.
In your previous book, in our previous book, you dropped a bombshell there out of the blue about how you, I presume, I don’t think it says it’s you, but it sounds like you, informed highle folks at DHS and the US senator about a particular object craft. It had no wings, no engine, no fuel tanks, no fuel, and that somehow we we humans, US government had been able to get inside.
Um, I know that you’ve had to been asked a hundred times by other people, um, are you ever going to reveal more information? I guess you can’t >> reveal a little bit more here. There was a second discussion with high up house representatives, too, but I can’t go into that because that provided some potential answers.
>> How do you know it’s a craft if it has no fuel, no fuel tank? You didn’t actually see it fly or I mean it are you convinced it is some sort of a craft a machine?
>> Yes. And by the way, Senator Reid asked the same question and he was not the senator sitting in the in the room that I’m describing. No, >> there is true interest in getting research going and finding out as much as we can learn.
>> Okay, we get to the heart of the matter here. Does a Does a government have craft? He’s saying it does. You’ve heard that it does. Does a government have alien aircraft that it’s not telling us about?
>> The answer is yes, it does. Yeah. And he he was allowed to say after going through the DOS process, he was allowed to talk about that one in particular because he’d already shared it with other government agencies. When OAP ended after its 27-month run, uh Dr. L Katsky, Robert Bigalow, and a couple other colleagues were trying to find a home for a new version of it. And they settled on DHS, the Department of Homeland Security, whose top science advisers were very much in favor of it, something called Kona Blue. And then after agreeing to go forward with it and and uh be the home for a new program like OAP, um they somebody at the top intervened and they said no. But Dr.
Latsky shared with DHS the idea that he knows for sure we’ve got at least one of them. Now that is the exact point that I dived into this topic 39 years ago um with Bob Lazar. The idea that we had more than a couple of them that we were taking apart reverse engineering to figure out if we can duplicate the technology. And at the time I made that story I was pretty far out on a limb. It it seemed like pretty far into the UFO weeds. Even the UFO community was hostile to it. But now, all these years later, it’s the center of the conversation. It’s the center of new films and reporting by major news organizations. And now, I don’t feel quite so lonely anymore. Ron, >> oh, I remember it well. In 1989, I was working at another TV station here in town. And when you did that first story that we showed in our first episode, if you go back and you could see it, uh the interview with Bob Lazar on live TV, you you seemed a little surprised even that he said some of the things he said back at that time.
>> Yeah. U I I was surprised by Lazar, of course. I was completely out of my depth. I mean, I remember first interviewing him, I used the term um reverse archaeology because I’d never heard about reverse engineering. And uh I I’m equally surprised by Dr. Latsky coming forward with this information.
Not that I’m surprised he would be in the no, just I’m surprised that he was given permission to go ahead and say as much as he as he has now. Obviously, it’s not enough. We want to know more about it. Where is this craft? Uh how do you know it’s a UFO? How do we get inside? And he’s not sharing any of that, but I expect him to come forward with further details in the not too distant future.
>> Okay, we have about a minute left. Is this an arm race between countries right now? you you the Chinese, the Russians, US, maybe other countries involved in trying to reverse engineer this technology first.
>> It is exactly that and it’s why I I tend to have doubts that we’re ever going to have total disclosure. We are in a race and it’s a race for survival. The Russians want this technology. The Chinese want it. We want it. And whoever gets it first wins. It would allow world domination if you could build build even one of these things. So you can never quite admit yes, we’ve got them and we’re working on it because they a that would acknowledge that you’ve got it and are working on it. And B, it would give the adversary nations some clues about how far along you are. I went to Russia in the ‘9s. They’re they were working on it then trying to do exactly the same thing.
>> No. And the trips that you were fascinating to me when you when you made those trips and have talked about them and and we’re going to have that in future episodes of Mystery Wire. We’re going to dive into that. There is so much stuff that we can dive into here that we’ve just touched the surface and we’ve got the latest stuff for you with Dr. Jim Lowsky here. But um George, thank you very much.
>> We’ll be back next week with another show.
>> Ron, I hope people will check out Mystery Wire the website because there’s so much material that we’ve put together on there. You were >> on with it. [laughter] Yeah, >> we’ve worked for years putting it as a labor of love to put all this stuff together because it’s a treasure trove of history. Number one, we’re going to get into mob stuff because you know a lot about that here in Las Vegas. I got here in ‘ 84 when the mob was just getting just getting getting run out of town sort of.
>> Yeah, we’re going to expand the parameters of what a mystery really is.
>> So, okay. Thanks for watching everybody for George Nap. I’m Ron Futrell. Bye for now.