Skinwalker Ranch Artifact Discovery Map – UAP – Chris Bartel Testimony

Heat.
Hey, Heat.
We’ve been trying to set this up for a long time.
>> Yeah, I appreciate you uh hanging in there with me. My schedule is pretty wild and I really just don’t have the time like I used to for interviews. Like my free time is a with three kids. It’s pretty busy. First of all, for for the people that watch, you know, watch my podcast, could you just sort of introduce yourself and sort of explain your phenomenal background in all of this?
>> Sure.
Sure. Um, my name is Chris Bartell. Um, I’m mostly known for my time at Skinwalker Ranch, uh, from the Bigalow period from 2010 to 2016. Uh, prior to working in the ranch for security, uh, I was in the air force stationed at Nellis Air Force Base, uh, active duty from 1998 to 2006, uh, security forces main base side. Uh, also during that time, I also worked at Creech Air Force Base as a instru cadre instructor. And then in 2006, I got out of active duty and went IMA reserves for the Air Force till 2009. And in 2006, I also got hired with the Department of Energy for the Nevada test site as a security police officer where I obtained a Q-le clearance and did my role as you know protecting all PL1 responsibilities and properties and assets. And then eventually my wife I met in the Air Force and she got orders to Malstrom Air Force Base and we moved to Malstrom Air Force Base for a short time and uh she’s from Montana. So that was a pretty good move but the Air Force was downsizing and we ended up coming back to Las Vegas and when I came back to Las Vegas I tried to go back to the test site where I just came from basically but there was a federal hiring freeze. Uh so I got hired with uh uh a company that had the contract for Area 51 and I ended up working the Janet detail. Uh it was a part-time gig at first and then it became a full-time gig and then around the exact same time uh I got hired with Bass in 2010 by another Air Force uh individual that I served with at Nellis.
It’s it’s all about who you know and this plan of work. Really, it’s about who you know. And uh I got the gig for um for for BAS for security officer uh for Skinwalker Ranch. Uh but we also did the investigations and collected the data and did experiment sometimes on the property. And so in uh early October of 2010, I found myself on the ranch and was up there up until uh the the property was sold to Brennan Fugle. And then I remained on with Bigle Aerospace until 2018.
And in 2017, my father passed away. Uh I’m originally from Kansas, uh a small town called Hillsbor, Kansas. And so it was time to move back, you know, leave the city of Las Vegas after being out there for 20 years. And then we moved out here to Las Vegas or I’m sorry, to back to Kansas. And I got hired with the federal police department. I hear did several years there and retired recently with with that. And now I’m just uh working on background investigations still for the government but a different role now. And then full-time photographer also as as as as a started as a hobby a long time ago and now I’ve been doing it professionally for a couple years now.
>> I love your photography. I absolutely love it. Uh you used to have a website.
Now you’ve got a Patreon.
>> Uh >> I have a Patreon now. Yeah. Because it’s easier for me to post a lot more pictures and engage with people. It’s free also. And um it just gives me more um availability to communicate directly with people that have questions about, you know, and also I’m able to upload stuff weekly, you know, and uh eventually I’m going to probably start a website again and start selling some of my prints because I get a lot of messages and people asking to buy prints. I used to sell them a long time ago and I just now that I’m I’m kind of winding down, you know, going into the retirement role, I’m trying to find some time to get that started.
>> That’d be fantastic. I I love your photography. You on Skinwalker Ranch. I follow you very closely on on X where you’re posting stuff from those years.
>> Yeah.
>> You spent more time out there, I think, than anybody, right? You lived out there from 2010 to to 2016 at least, right?
You and the dog.
>> Yeah. I mean, we Yeah. There was uh we did two week stints out there. So when we weren’t out there, we were back in Las Vegas doing security for Bigle Aerospace or doing other digs out there.
But yeah, off and on up on the ranch for six years. Um out there I’d say 90% of that time was alone also with just me and the dogs. Yeah. There >> and um you know doing the patrolling but also try to collect data or look for anything out of the ordinary to document. And uh yeah, we did that. I did that the entire time.
>> So 90% of the time you were alone out there with the dogs.
>> Yeah. Yes. That around February of 2011, we went to one man patrols out there and the ranch man, we still had two ranch managers out there who I love to death there, but they were elderly. So they stayed more at, you know, Homestead one area. And so it was pretty much, you know, you’re up there for two weeks and you still had a job to do which was secure the property, but also those of us who were out there were still trying to collect data or and document experiences and stuff like that. And then when we went to one man units out there, it was very difficult because now you lost a secondary witness to events and now you’ve lost backup if something goes bad. And uh it was not it it took a while to adjust honestly because um to push out every night into the darkness by yourself out there. It took a while to get used to.
>> Yeah. With no backup. I can just imagine. What did it feel like to be on the ranch alone? Because that’s impossible now, right? They’ve got all those cameras and everybody’s around, you know, all the electronics.
>> Yeah. To just be out there alone. What was that like all those years? you know, back then, um, it’s so crazy to me to see that the ranch is like a mainstream topic now or there’s a show and stuff because back then it was never I never thought in a million years that would happen. So, when it comes to the ranch, it’s very real to me. I don’t really consider it like entertainment purposes.
I mean, I’m heavily invested in the narrative out there. Um, but being out there uh during that time, it was stressful. It was very stressful.
Not just because, you know, you didn’t want anything bad to happen on your watch out there, you know, anything negative on the to happen to the to the pro to the property or to the ranch managers or yourself. And so you you had to really push yourself to be out in the elements at all times and have eyes on the property because we didn’t have any any camera systems out there at all, not one. So you had to be physically present in the environment which was looking back now was super beneficial for me because it helped me kind of evolve and expand my consciousness you know being immersed in so much environment and in nature you know and that kind of helped with my photography as well because I use my photography to kind of pass the time and that the photography was never meant to see the light of day that was just something I was doing out there to pass the time but also to show my kids one day of where I worked at and it’s really cool cool job that I had and um I’m glad I did. I’m really glad I did.
>> I’m glad you did too. Yeah. And you some of the experiences you’ve shared about, you know, you you did some meditations sometimes on top of the mesa, just you and the dogs.
>> Yeah.
>> And and and you know, the other thing is you collected an incredible amount of artifacts off of the off of the ranch. I >> I I did.
>> Yeah. And and you know, the first year I was out there, our focus was primarily there’s this there’s this big misconception I think in the I don’t I guess the skinwalker community or history that the ranch guards out there were just doing the guard stuff like you know just checking gates. That is the farthest thing from the truth. The during that timeline we were the ones responsible for doing the investigations, collecting data, doing the daily reports that were going to the Pentagon. That was all done by bass guards up there. It wasn’t a group of scientists out there every single day.
And this is just the honest truth. This isn’t like me um being negative about the situation. This is just how it was.
You know, typical military situation where you work more with less and that’s how that’s how we operated. But um it was interesting to be out there like that. But my my like I said, my photography was never meant to see the light of day. It was just something that we I did to document out there. But um it was interesting. The first year out there, we focused more on the Ghostbuster type stuff, you know, EVP sessions inside the homesteads, trying to collect data with photog photo photographs and all this stuff. And then it wasn’t until March of 2011 when I was out there by myself, I had a pretty good routine down with the dogs. And every morning around 10:30, 11, I would go out with our hike. And I would eventually end up at this place called the Eastern Canyon or the Eastern Valley with the dogs and we would have lunch together, just me and the dogs.
>> Yeah.
>> And I uh I put my bag down that had all the the food in it and water and stuff.
And I sat there for a while with the dogs and just kind of enjoyed the day.
And then when I went to pick my bag up, I noticed right next to my bag was a really nice uh silver granite arrow head. And when I picked it up, I was like, “Oh my god.” Like everything kind of clicked. And I viewed the ranch at that point with my background in law enforcement as not like a I mean, I hate to say it, but like a crime scene. Like, okay, now I have physical evidence that might lead to something. And so I started documenting it. I started documenting where I found it, GPS locations, photographs, and I was putting this on the daily reports that were going out and eventually, which was so bizarre to me, they told me to stop documenting the artifacts and that it wasn’t important. And I was just dumbfounded like this is extremely important because for the first time ever we have physical evidence that could lead up to um who was out there and why why were they out there and what I found so I took that topographical map of the property and I started putting the check marks and I noticed when there was an abundance of artifacts there was also people reporting anomalous activity nearby.
>> Yeah. Now so I I’ve got that map. Can I bring that? I got this shared on my screen.
>> Sure.
>> Okay. So, this is your map, right?
>> Yeah. That’s my map. Yeah.
>> And so, this is this is like from 2011 to 2016.
>> Yep. 2010. 2010 to 2016. Yep.
>> Okay. So, this is like a complete map of what you found while you were there.
>> Yes.
>> With the GPS locations.
>> Yeah. The GPS locations is on a different data sheet. And I gave all that stuff over to Chris Roberts, who’s the the who pretty much took my data and and is just validating everything that I found back then. And he’s found way more stuff.
>> Well, I I am stunned by how many of these red marks you’ve got.
>> Yeah.
>> Where you found this is just it’s overwhelming for me to see this much stuff. I mean, are these all just arrow heads or there other things?
>> No, no. Some of them are like grindstones or um tools like skinning tools. um flakes at what’s called evidence of occupation. Some of those areas are actually areas of interest like um the cave area where I found in 2012. Uh how I found that cave, I was actually following a trail of u agot that was flakes and I followed it from on top of the mesa down and it and went into the cavern area.
>> Is this is it the small cave in? Is this what you’re talking about here?
>> That’s it right there. And when I jumped down into the uh small cave-in, I found two big wolf traps, like uh canine traps in there. And it was so bizarre cuz it it just was so out of place. It was in this little cavern area. It was like a a void. And there was these wolf traps that were laying there like been placed there for who knows how long. They were old and rusted. I had pictures of them, too, that went with this graph.
>> Wow.
>> And um Yeah. And and you’ve also got are is this your blue orb that you identified here?
>> So India drums. Is that Indian drums?
>> You heard them or you saw them?
>> Heard them. So that’s Homestead 3. It was me and another officer one morning.
It was about 3:00 in the morning and we were just sitting on a tree limb out there and this is in 2010 or 2011 2010.
I think it was in fall of 2010. We were sitting there and we heard off further on the west it sounded like a pow-wow like a drum music and it lasted for about maybe seven to eight seconds just long enough for us to pull out our EVP or our digital recorder and hit record and then it stopped and we just sat there like did you hear that? And he’s like I heard that. And we just kind of sat there and then we scouted the whole area for like a couple hours. We were up and down that whole area trying to see if there was somebody camping out there or if there was like some type of pow-wow and we were getting like an echo coming through the canyon there and we found nothing.
>> Wow. Wow.
>> It was weird.
>> Now, this this is this the east um area you’re talking about where you would camp with the dogs.
>> Yeah, that’s the east the east canyon.
>> Yeah, the east canyon, right?
>> Yeah. And that’s where I found a majority of the artifacts out there. And they’re most like most of them are still out there. The problem is that area of and you probably know this from being out there. Anytime it rains, the whole terrain changes, you know, things just slide in lands the whole area changes.
So that’s why I started GPSing photographs to the area and I’ve gone back to some of those locations and I can’t find now I’ll find I’ll find stuff out there but not the original stuff.
It’s either washed away and some of the stuff I took back to homestead one and I had it in a a big wooden uh like a wooden bowl and I was going online and trying to get um do more research of some of the artifacts. Some of those I took down to Vernal to the museum back in 2010 2011 and had the museum look at them and and be validated. They have those are old archaic um sellins or whatever. But I had the wooden bowl inside uh the trailer and it disappeared after we sold the pro. I think somebody probably got on the property after we sold the the ranch and and probably took those artifacts. They weren’t up there.
So, you don’t have these artifacts anymore?
>> No. No.
>> And some of them you left there, right?
>> Oh, yeah. I left a majority of them out there.
>> And now you’ve identified a small cave here.
>> Yeah. There’s a small cave over there.
It’s now collapsed in as well because of the um the rain. Yeah.
>> And where’s the spiral? You know, the famous spiral.
>> That is going to be uh just a little bit west of the small cave >> over here.
>> Yeah. Right around that area. Yeah.
>> Oh. Oh, you know, I think that’s it.
Right by this word small.
>> Yeah. Right there.
>> Okay. So that’s where the spiral is.
>> Yeah.
>> Got it. Now some of this is not actually like owned by Brandon Fugal. Is that right?
>> Right now. Yeah. Because back in our timeline, we had a thousand acres to secure because the Bigalow leased the land around the ranch.
>> Okay.
>> So it gave us a more of a avail. It gave us more of an area to secure but also an area to investigate.
>> Uh can you tell me about this orange orb that you saw? Yeah. So, I think it was in 2012 or 2013. I was at the East Gate with the dogs. It was probably like 1:00, 2 o’clock in the morning, and I looked over in the Eastern Canyon, and I thought there was a trespasser with a orange flashlight or an orange, it looked like an orange lantern, like a big lantern. And so, naturally, I assumed it was a trespasser cuz it’s like, you know, it’s standing out pretty obviously. And so, me and the dogs ran over there. By the time we got over there, there was nothing. There was no signs of an individual. There was nothing to indicate there was even a presence like physical presence in that area.
>> And with the big the big indicator that something was weird was the dogs. The dogs are always something that we watch very closely their behaviors and they looked very uneasy. So, >> it was just one of those things that we just try to document as best you can, you know.
>> Yeah. And that’s kind of how the ranch is, you know.
documenting stuff out there is pretty hard. I mean, even even now with all the camera systems they have out there, I’m sure they still have a little difficult time trying to document.
>> Yeah. This the phenomena is very elusive.
>> It is.
>> You’re the one person that’s advocating for like the history of the land.
>> Yeah.
>> As the most important thing. And this map kind of tells the story.
>> I don’t think most people understand how much you’ve actually found out there.
And you’re saying they’re they’re arrowheads as well as other things.
arrowheads, stone tools, >> stone tools, >> areas of interest. As a matter of fact, if you look at the ones, it says hollow rock >> shadow.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> So, the hollow rock is something I found in 2014.
>> It was It’s a hollowedout rock and there was evidence of occupation there of one person who probably lived at this rock, this area. And right next to the rock where those three um exes are at, those are actually the one farthest um south is actually a handful of um they’re called grandfathers and grandmother stones which are used for ceremonial sweat lodges. So that means that area was used for ceremonial purposes back in the day. We’re talking we’re talking thousands of years ago.
>> Thousands of years ago >> now. So the the artifacts that I found out there, I’ve had a timeline and they go back from the Paleoindians all the way to the ancestral Pbloian uh you know the more of the modern indigenous cultures that lived out there. We’re talking like an 8,000 year >> timeline that out there.
>> 8,000 years.
>> 8,000 years.
>> We’re talking so >> Paleoindians.
>> Okay. So, I mean this there’s nothing really that stands out right now at least like this would be like an ideal place to live.
>> You’ve got the stream that goes along on the ridge and then you’ve also got the gulch.
>> Yeah.
>> I’m wondering do you what’s your hypothesis? Do you think like there was like a settlement here or was this a a ceremonial site? I think a couple things, you know, and the evidence that led to this conclusion is obvious from this graph that um it’s the indigenous history, energy, frequency, and vibration that’s displaced in the natural environment. And when you tune your own frequency into that environment, you can probably experience something what we consider paranormal, what they would consider spiritual. And I think the combination of the underground water system that runs all the way up from from and it comes out at Skinwalker, but it goes all the way north through Blindfrog Ranch and up the Crow Crow Canyon area. Yeah.
>> That water source. And then James Ken had mentioned magnetic anomalies that are maybe possible from a remnants of a meteor impact strike that dispersed throughout the basin. So it created a a a unique atmosphere where maybe there was natural phenomena happening that drew people there for spiritual purposes like magnetically you know how we’re magnetically charged to go somewhere and and so maybe indigenous cultures went out there and they viewed it more of a spiritual spot and instead of you know they document as best they can but they just spiritually evolved with it you know they understood what it was and they just evolved with it and I think when I was out there. Um, my whole perception changed once I started focusing on that reality because it was undeniable evidence. And as a matter of fact, you know, you can go out there right now and prove it. And I would my I was fortunate to be raised by a mother who um is Cherokee and she grew up on the reservations in the Southwest and she taught me how to meditate and ground myself when I was a very young kid. But I didn’t put it in practice until I I got out there because I was out there alone.
>> So yeah, >> um it helped me focus on my photography because I would do a grounding protocol out there and what I call meditation rock. That’s where I would go and sometimes at night I would sleep with the dogs at that location >> right here.
>> And uh it just helped me get really focused but also connect to the land.
And I think I think that’s important.
And I think if you want to elevate your consciousness, you have to physically immerse yourself in these environments.
And it doesn’t have to be skinwalker ranch. It can be anywhere where you feel a connection to nature like our ancestors did. And you evolve spiritually. And I think that’s why people went there or were there obviously there was people there for thousands of years.
>> That’s amazing. So you think they were actually here for thousands of years.
Clearly there was something going on in this area for a while >> and it may have been a cere ceremonial site but also people actually may have lived here because because it was like would you like classify it like sacred land like sacred sacred site >> sacred site 100 yeah absolutely okay >> there that whole area over there especially that eastern that eastern canyon I believe is one of the most important areas of that whole property it it needs a real thorough um archaeology um comb through in that area. Yeah, especially with the the spiral that’s there. Yeah.
>> Right. And those are fairly large rocks that’s been there for a while.
>> Yeah. And I you know, it’s it was kind of weird how, >> you know, I was I spent months gathering all this data back then and it was completely ignored. It wasn’t until later on the years where I met Chris Roberts and and Brandon Fugle’s team, they actually kind of embraced it more and pushed forward more and actually are doing a good job of of of of kind of documenting stuff out there. they understand the ranch has many overlapping layers and I’m not saying my my what I’m saying is the absolute um end all of the conversation. my my input is just a small piece of the puzzle and the team that’s out there now is doing a pretty damn good job of gathering more pieces of the puzzle that you know and we’re all kind of getting together and putting our two cents but I always go back to the indigenous cultures who were here thousands of years before us and I just truly believe if there was some type of um physical like let’s say contact or interactions with us spiritually it would be uh humanity who was most connected to the earth and look at society now we are totally disconnected from from that reality and right >> so it just makes sense and I could feel it when I’m out there I feel like the land has a consciousness about it and the the land knows a person’s true self your genuine self >> and I’ve been out there and I’ve experienced darkness out there and I’ve experienced light out there but it really depends on the person what they’re going to project and you’re going to get it back so it’s a unique property but it’s not just that property it’s the whole basin out there it’s I love Being out there, I can’t I wish I could still roam those hills every day.
It was truly a unique experience.
>> Yeah. Would you live out there?
>> I would definitely live out there.
>> Really? Where would you live if you could live? Anywhere in the Uni Basin.
>> Um I I I would live probably I like um I like Vernal obviously because it’s close by. There’s modern stuff there. But honestly, I do like the Fort Duchaine area. I like it because I like the real grittiness of that environment out there.
>> It’s just that’s I love the grittiness of American culture, like the the Southwest and the the history of the the gr the nation and I like the feeling how I feel out there in that part of the the basin. I just feel connected out there.
So, I would move I would live close to the as that ranch as possible.
>> There’s definitely something in that area that’s I want to use the word spiritual. It doesn’t feel paranormal to me.
>> It feels like it’s a sacred site. Now, >> can we talk a little bit about some of your experience? You got wolf experience on here.
>> Yes.
>> And you know, you were saying a large wolf and then they found the potential direwolf in the gulch.
>> Yeah. I was a little shocked when I I actually was talking to Caleb directly when all that unfolded and I was pretty much mind blown like um extremely validated but also it you know when that wolf experience happened that was my second week of being on the property and I’ll be honest with you the first week I was up there on that ranch I thought I wrote the place off as a complete joke I because I grew up in the country of can like out in the sticks where my parents live is we used to raise quarter horse American quarter horses and so I was used to a very I was used to the country dynamics and we had people on our team and probably previously who were born and raised in a city and you throw them in a country environment it’s going to be very uneasy and uncomfortable for them so they’re going to probably report things that may have a common explanation so the first week I was up there um I was like this is just this is just a ranch like where I grew up at. It wasn’t until the second week where I had me and another officer had a wolf experience that kind of flipped my whole perception around of like there is something else going on out here that I’m not aware of.
>> And can you give a little more detail in that because I’ve got some questions about exactly what happened. So, as I understand it, there’s the stream goes along here and it like crosses the road.
There’s a crossing between the road and the and the stream, right?
>> Yes.
>> And there’s a lot of grass in there.
There’s bushes. Yep. It’s it’s the it’s the the the dish that goes that runs through that the property. Yeah.
>> And that’s right where the triangle is.
>> Yeah. And back then we just called it the the the bend or whatever.
>> Even though Yeah. We just called the bend and we didn’t even know there were we didn’t refer to as a triangle. So in 2010, um me and another officer were up there and this is when we had two officers and we had a pretty good routine down where every morning one guy would do a run of the property and kind of get a eyes on and then the other guy would do the report from the night before and then we would just flip-flop every day, you know. So and this officer came back and he was like, “Hey, I found some weird footprints on top of the mesa.” And I’m like, “What?” Like, “Let’s go take a look.” So we go up >> right there.
>> Yeah, right there. wolf tracks. So, we go up there and we see these um at the time we had two black labs and a border collie and they were full grown labs, so they’re pretty goodized dogs. And this these prints dwarfed our lab prints and they were pretty large uh canine prints and they wolflike prints. But what made it weird was it it appeared that this animal had a three foot three and a half foot stride at some points. So it looked like it was walking on two feet and then back to four feet and then back to two feet. It just the the the print ratio was very bizarre. That’s what stood out to me besides the uh the size of the print. I actually took a picture I posted on X several times of throwing the ruler down and it shows the stride of this animal. And so me and my my partner were like, “What is this?” Like what could this be walking on two feet up here? And remind you this is in 2010 that you know there wasn’t any other than the book. There was no YouTube videos. There was no I didn’t even read the book by that time. I didn’t read the book until months later. And and so we’re just kind of figuring out like what are we dealing with up here? And so we call our supervisors and say, “Hey, this is what we got going on.” And their advice is, you know, document as best you can, but be safe. So me and that officer had this brilliant idea, which is kind of dumb looking back at it now, that we were going to try to capture this animal or at least get photographic evidence of this animal.
So that night that was it might have been the next night we went out and uh we set up with the dogs with all three of our dogs we set up little campfires um by homestead 2 uh we did a campfire and I want to say we did another one by homestead 3 trying to draw this animal in or trying to kind of just act normal about our routine cuz what was weird is that when we went out that night the dogs our dogs were glued to our hip and normally they’re out running around trying to catch rabbits and other animals and stuff and they weren’t being playful. They were like nervous and so we were nervous. So we’re walking around all night trying to find these this large canine, whatever the hell it was.
And so it’s about 3:00 in the morning and we decide to walk back to Homestead 1 and call it a night cuz it started raining a little bit. Little bit of rain and it was a full moon night. I’ll never forget this because it plays in my head a lot. So, we decided to backtrack our footprints from that night and we found those large canine prints behind our prince. So, the whole night it was tracking us basically and we didn’t even pick up on it and we had NVGs and all this stuff and we didn’t pick up on it.
We know the dogs picked up on it but we didn’t see it. So, as we’re walking down the dirt road because we’re like, “Okay, we need to get the hell out of here and get back to Homestead One because now something’s stalking us.” We get to that area where it says Wolf Grow and I’m probably about 50 paces ahead of my partner. He’s behind me with his back to the ditch. My back’s to to him and uh he said, “Stop. I hear something.” as I’m turning around to say what the full moon clouds went over the moon and it felt like the it felt like I was walking through water like time it felt like time just slowed down and I turned around to say what and behind him out of the ditch we hear this god awful guttural howl grow the only way I can describe it is a howl and a guttural growl happening at at the same time.
And out of the ditch, we see this giant black, I’ll just say it, wolf about the size of a deer jump over the the the um creek bed onto the dirt road and then run west down the dirt road. The dogs go after the animal and we go after the dogs thinking that if they tussle with this giant animal, they’re going to get torn to shreds. And what was really strange as soon as we lost eye contact with because it ran so fast into the darkness once we lost visual the dogs also lost visual and they stopped on a dime like didn’t pursue the chase. As soon as they lost visual they just like it like hit a brick wall like stopped and looked at us and we looked at them like did you see that? Like what was that? And so we at the time one of the ranch managers had a big old tractor out there, a big uh cat that he’d plow the road with. We jumped on the cat and we’re trying to like scan the the tree line to see where this animal went and the dogs did like a 360 around us. And then we get back down onto the road and make it back to homestead one and we’re like doing the report and stuff from what just happened, you know, freshly in our minds. And I remember telling the officer cuz he was doing the report. I said, “Put in there that I didn’t even see that animal because it freaked me out.” And at the time, the reason why I said that is because I had an active Q clearance for the DOE. And I was planning to go back to the DOE and I knew these reports were going somewhere up top. And if somebody said, “Well, Chris said he saw basically a large wolf.” Uh, you go ahead and yank his clearance because I mean, that’s what that’s the reality of it. They would pull me pull your clear. That’s how that’s how the DOE is. It’s no nonsense.
If you’re going to talk about this paranormal, like they’re going to pull your clearance. They just don’t operate that way. So, I put an initial report that I didn’t even see that thing even though I for sure saw that thing. And then, so that happened in that happened in 2010.
So, I wish I had more crazy stories to go with that for all the years a after, but I don’t beside other one.
>> Okay. So, before we get to the second one, >> yeah, >> you say it was the size of a deer. This is very important. And I actually I don’t know if you remember, I actually talked to you about this on X.
>> I wanted to understand, okay, how big was this thing? And was it furry? What color was it? Did you see its eyes? Did it have a tail?
>> But how big was this thing? I want to say it was like the size of a large buck deer.
>> A large buck the size of a horse.
>> No, a little bit smaller than a horse.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> Like I would say like a large size deer.
I didn’t see his eyes. I do remember seeing a black tail and I remember seeing it being black.
>> Well, could it have been a deer?
>> Uh, no. Cuz the the prints that left were canine prints.
>> Okay. Okay. I’m just asking the questions here, you know. Yeah.
>> Trying to rule out everything. It was definitely It was definitely a wolf.
>> Could it have been a coyote? I know there’s coyotes out there.
>> Maybe it could have been. It could have been a very large coyote. Yeah, I haven’t ruled that out. It could have been a very large coyote. I mean, that that whole basin’s got a lot of We have a lot of coyote activity out there. A lot.
>> So, it could have been. But what was weird is how it was following us by itself, you know, not a packact. And then it it just the this just the how it jumped over that ditch and hit the road. It just really messed with my mind how it how that looked in my head. It didn’t look normal. Like >> it just was weird.
>> The whole thing was weird, you know?
>> Oh yeah.
>> I look back at that and I’m just like what the hell was that? And then so obviously after that happened for days we tried to go out there and and get more evidence and more data and and put ourselves out there. We even got brave enough to like sleep down into the uh southern tree line to like draw it out or to to use us as bait basically.
>> You mean down here?
>> Yeah. Down there. Cuz we thought maybe it went down >> near the goats. Yeah. Near the goats.
Yeah. There’s a lot. Once you get down in those trees, it gets pretty thick down there. Oh yeah, I have a story that dead cow store. I have a story for that.
Yeah, there’s a whole kill site down there from a pack of coyotes that we’re pulling cows in that area.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Kill them. But um and yeah, so we tried for for for I mean for a while to try to get more data on what what the hell we just witnessed, you know? It was just >> wow.
>> It was so bizarre.
>> Yeah. And the way these things that happen, you know, these paranormal experiences, I would call it paranormal because it disappeared and you and it was too big >> and it was a physical, you know, manifestation of something, but it was paranormal. But once that happens, something it’s like an egg cracks, right? It’s like your brain >> opens up and so you sort of realize, what was that like to realize there’s something really going on? This is like your second week on the ranch, right?
>> Second week on >> and now you’re like, this is real.
Yeah, it it it it took a while to process. Even when I went back to Vegas, it I felt like I had brain fog for a while. Like it kept replaying in my head, what was that? What will I encounter that again?
You know, hopefully we can document it better or whatever. And it never happened again until I think it was about I think it was in 2015. I was out there by myself and I had another wolf experience out there again. And this was really almost as strange as the last one.
Um, where was that?
>> So, it was at the East Gate. If you go if you go east gate, I think I Yeah, right there. 2015 How Growl.
>> Oh, there we go. Right there.
>> There it is. Yeah. So, in 2015, I’m sitting in a lawn chair with the dogs at this time. Now we have William, who’s the last dog of our timeline. He’s now on the property with us. William from the TV show The Dog. So, we have the two black labs. And now William is there, the dog cuz uh our other uh border collie had passed away. So, I have all three dogs sitting at my feet and I’m in a lawn chair in that little um strip of trees and I’m looking at the escape.
>> Yeah. I’m looking east to see if any trespassers come through that area right there. Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> And so I’m sitting in a lawn chair and my back is facing the the eastern valley where I spent a lot of my time at out there. And in 2015, the ranch was like a secondary home, you know? There was no more fear factor. It was like being back at home. Yeah, we had strange encounters from time to time, but it it just became normal. Honestly, it just became normal.
But it wasn’t like all the time. It was like once every 4 months or 5 months or even it like it it it wasn’t consistent.
But anyways, I’m sitting in a lawn chair on my phone. I’m just not really paying attention because I just felt totally relaxed. And then directly behind me, probably about 20 ft, I hear that same guttural how growl that I heard in 2010.
I came off my chair and as I’m falling back into the dirt, I pull my I draw my weapon out to because I think this thing’s jumping on me. I pull my weapon out. I hit the ground. The dogs go after the animal. And I get up, assess the situation, pull my flashlight out, and I immediately go into the brush to get the dogs.
And as soon as I go into the brush, the dogs came back like confused. So, we scout the whole area. We couldn’t find a single print anywhere.
It was like letting me know, hey, I’m still out here. But the fact that it how growled at me instead of just like attacking me, it just And so I had to walk all the way back from that location back to homestead one down that road.
>> Yeah.
>> And just like on pins and needles thinking, okay, this wolf is back.
>> Wow.
>> And what am I going to do if I have to deal with this? I’m out there by myself.
You know, it was just a very hair raising moment. But it let me know that, hey, I’m just a guest out here and I need to be a little more aware of my surroundings, you know, because the ranch watches you or you you are being observed out there by some I just call it spirit. Spirit is observing you and >> Uhhuh.
>> I was I was not paying attention basically >> and and you can feel it. You can feel that you’re being by spirit.
>> Absolutely. Out there. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So that happened in 2015 and uh >> what about this uh footsteps? We saw a ghost saw gold light.
>> What’s up with that?
>> So briefly in 20 was it 2012?
briefly in 2012, we we went back to twoman officers just for a short time because we increased security after Jesse Ventur’s TV show um Jesse Ventur conspiracy theories came out there and Joe Rogan was out there too. So we had two different TV shows come out there.
So, we increased our security patrols uh just just for liability reasons, honestly, because we didn’t want anybody to get hurt on the property. And honestly, we don’t at the time the ranch was kind of getting more and more uh attention, which also brought people out there that want we actually had intel that somebody wanted to kill us. So, >> what >> Yeah, we had intel we had intel that there was an individual out of Roosevelt who planned to kill one of us to prove that we were aliens or prove that we were immortal. So, we had all that going on. Yeah.
So, yeah, I know.
>> To prove you’re immortal, like Yeah. We had all that going on during this timeline. And so, when I when I put stuff on this map, it was when I had a secondary witness usually, you know, or somebody to validate what I’m saying.
So, the footsteps, we were inside Homestead one. It was me and another officer, and we had been out all day long. You know, it’s like 2 o’clock, 3:00 in the morning.
And I’m positioned uh in the living room on a couch uh with my laptop up reading emails from just my wife and stuff like that.
>> And my partner was uh in the kitchen doing dishes and I see out of the corner of my eye something walked past walked behind him and he stops what he’s doing and he walks into the back room where we stayed at. We had these rooms in the back. Even though my room was at Bigalow’s or where the command center’s at on the TV show, that was Bigalow’s room. And then I took over that room because they had a king-size bed. And also, I was closer to the road, so I could hear the dogs bark at night. So, I I get up and alert. So, I I slept in that room, but he went in the back room. And then he came out and he said, “Dude, did you just walk behind me?” I said, “No, I saw somebody walk behind you.” And we both looked at each other like we heard somebody walk through the trailer, walk behind him and go into our back room.
And then he went in the back room, didn’t see anybody. And then I’m freaking out like, okay, there’s somebody in this like you’re trying to make logical sense of what just happened. And we’re thinking, is there a trespasser on property? Is somebody messing with us? you know, you know, we cleared the whole house and the whole area outside and didn’t see anybody out there, but we definitely saw something and he’s and the buddy that um I’m talking about, he’s from the like the the back roads of Oklahoma, so he’s like nononsense type of dude. Like he didn’t like to make up stories and he so when he when he validated what I saw, we were both pretty shocked and um we just were like, “What the hell?” Like so bizarre.
But once again, it happened so randomly.
Here we are. We had been out for at least 14 hours that day trying to document something, trying to collect data, trying to find something to put in the report feasible, you know, or have an experience and document it. And then here we are back at Homestead One, which is our where we lived at, and that happened. It was just bizarre.
>> Wow. What about the gold light you saw?
So, the gold light that actually happened I want to say in 2012. I had a little GoPro camera at the time and um I was at the East Gate and this time I had drove and we had a little white Highlander vehicle that we used to to drive from from the ranch to Vernal to get our our weekly supplies. So, every every Thursday we would drive to Vernal and go to Walmart and get our weekly supplies and then go back to the ranch and then stay on the ranch for the the week, you know. So, I had we had a Highlander and it was a colder night and for some reason I just drove the Oh, I know why. Because we were out there by ourselves and I would use the Highlander. I’d park the Highlander by the road and then I would position myself in the field. So, when people came up down the road, I would hit the flashers on the vehicle and then come out the tree line which would look like there was two of us out there. It the perception is reality and security. So it it made people think that okay they’re not out here by by themselves and we were out there by by ourselves.
So it was little tricks to stay ahead of the curve because I mean I honestly like I said we had death threats and it it was stressful time. So I’m in the Highlander and I’m in the vehicle about to um head back to Homestead 1 and I see in the my rearview mirror it looked like a helicopter landing on top of Homestead one. It was a golden light and I was like, “What in the hell is that?” So, I turn around and I have my GoPro going and I’m racing towards the Homestead One. It looked like a flare, like a golden flare coming over the the the trailer. And then by the time I got to the trailer, it was gone. It was like maybe seven, eight seconds it was in the air and then gone.
Yeah. And it was just bizarre. I maybe maybe it was a falling star and maybe it was um I don’t know what I mean the only thing I could think of rationally was maybe it was a falling star but it just looked like it was landing on top of the Homestead one.
>> What did you get it on the GoPro?
>> I think Yeah. And that GoPro went back to Las Vegas.
>> Okay. Okay. So you store somewhere.
>> So you sent the evidence and and it’s just kind of disappeared. There’s this whole black hole of all this stuff that you guys documented that’s just >> not ever been really made public to anybody.
>> Yeah.
>> Um >> Yeah. And it’s like one of those things where it’s like it’s not enough data I guess to support it could have been >> I don’t know. I mean like I said it it but what made it interesting was that years later Caleb and Travis Taylor report seeing the same thing basically at Homestead one >> right? So I maybe is some type of recurrent phenomena out there, >> but once again it happened and this enough for me to get my GoPro out there, >> hit record and I’m flying to the gate to Homestead one to see if there’s a helicopter landing out there or what, you know, it was just >> one of those things.
>> Now tell me about Homestead 2. You guys did you got quite a few pictures that you take out there and you there was a a lot of the pictures you have like a a a lawn chair >> and so I assume you’ve sat out in that in in in the homestead too area or inside of it.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and you’ve also got a photograph where there’s like you guys made a like a homemade Ouija board >> and did some experiments inside Homestead Ted too. Yeah, it was actually a remote viewing experiment that we did that >> it was our higherups had this experiment that we did out there. It was a remote viewing experiment. So partially um we would sit in the lawn chair inside Homestead 2 and we had a basically a SOP playlist or paper of like doing normal EVP sessions with spirits or whatever else trying to collect data on the digital recorder. And so we would sit inside Homestead too for hours, hours out there alone or sometimes there’d be a secondary officer like I said before in the early years, but eventually we’re out there alone doing this sessions with flashlights and um trying once again trying to document what you know trying to make contact with something that was out there, you know.
>> Wow. So you did EVP?
>> Yes.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Did Did you get anything? What happened?
Did you just >> Nothing. I I honestly never got anything that was significant.
>> I mean, not that I reme remember.
Nothing significant.
>> But at that time, what did it feel like to be in Homestead 2 to alone on the property with no security cameras? What did that feel like?
>> Uh completely terrifying honestly. I mean the first first couple times doing it extremely stressful and fear in fear fear factor was really going because when I’m sitting in this lawn chair my mind is racing about what if I do encounter something out of the ordinary how am I how am I going to physically react to it emotionally and spiritually and you know physically but also in my mind I’m sitting okay if I’m sitting in this lawn chair that means the east gate is vulnerable and somebody can get on the property and maybe possibly hurt the ranch managers or somebody can get on to the the north side of the property and and do some damage or or graffiti or or or whatever. I was always worried about somebody getting inside Homestead one and like ambushing me when I come back for my my nighttime patrol. So, all these things are racing through your head while you’re sitting in this lawn chair trying to make contact with whatever is out there, you know, trying to collect data. and this is just part of the job and it was just normal out there. After a while you get kind of used to it but it becomes kind of repetitive like okay I got to sit in this lawn chair for a while couple hours >> maybe something happens maybe something doesn’t >> but really the fear factor was pretty intense back then.
>> Wow. So >> I’m not going to lie and pretend that it wasn’t because it was definitely intense.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And you know sometimes the paranormal it doesn’t want to it doesn’t want to do anything because it doesn’t want to really scare you. You know a lot of people when they have a paranormal experience they’ll they’ll get a telepathic impression to like calm down don’t be afraid.
>> Yeah. And this is and this is really all happening in the first year out there because like I said in 20 March of 2011 my p perception shifted and my focus shifted to documenting the history that’s out there and then spending more time up on the Mesa Ridge with the dogs like just grounding myself up there and then um not really worrying so much about the security. I mean I worried about the security aspect but I was really trying to figure the place out. I mean, honestly, you know, and just what made this place so special, you know.
>> Yeah. Did you have to deal with actual trespassers? Did you catch people on the property and reported to the police, so you had it >> a couple times, >> but there were real problems?
>> There was one Yeah, a couple times. But for the most part, I played pretty uh good cop because I knew I was out there alone and I didn’t want to have an ego and try to be like a pretend tough guy because the people out there know pretty much our routine. uh when we go go to sleep and when we get up. And so if you’re watching the ranch, you know that what what was going on. So when I did encounter trespassors, I would report to BIA, the local the BIA police, and they would come and take them off and and find them or whatever. But very few often did I have any issues. There was only two times where um it got real dangerous real quick. And there was actually gunfire on one of the one of the instance one of the situations >> you had you you exchanged gunfire with trespassers.
>> No, no, no. I should be more uh I should I’ll talk more in detail about So what happened was I was at the east gate >> and we had just installed those jersey barriers that you see on the TV show that are pushed to the side.
>> Yeah. We installed those in the front of the east gate because somebody crashed through our our gate one night and then tied a chain to our gate and ripped the gate off and drove it down the road.
This is back in 20 I don’t know 12 or whatever. And so we just got the um jersey barriers out there, but there was no reflective lights on the barriers yet. We hadn’t put the They were like brand new basically. And so I’m out there. It’s about 3:00 in the morning.
I’m about to call it a night and I see a car barreling down the east gate going coming towards us, coming towards me.
And so I’m like, “Oh my god, this guy’s going to smash into these jersey barriers and and die cuz he’s not going to see him in time.” That’s how fast he was going. And as I get out to to get my flashlight out to to to strobe him, I see police chasing him. and I strobe him and it deters him from going down the road and he flies out into the it’s the Garcia’s property which is right before our property.
>> He flies out Yeah. a little bit further uh east >> like >> right right there.
>> So he flies out in that field >> and I’m sitting in the east gate and I I hear cops yelling and then I hear gunfire.
And so at the time at the Eastcape, there was only one little area where you got sell service because the whole ranch is a dead zone for sell service. So I was able to contact the BIA dispatch and say, “Hey, you have shots fired over here at the Garcia property. You need to get somebody down here cuz everything went silent after that happened.” And I’m thinking, whoever shot somebody is coming my way now. So I have my NVGs on.
I’m looking. I don’t see anything. And then probably within less than a minute, two minutes, the whole calvary showed up and there was a shooting incident in that area. But yeah, I was right there when it happened.
>> What year was that?
>> I want to say it was in 201 13 or 12. I can’t remember the exact date.
>> It was we were out there by ourselves. I want to say 2013.
>> Okay. Okay. I wanted to ask you about the selonite crystals.
>> Yeah. You’ve got the actual location.
Now, from what I’ve seen on the show, there’s the homestead and then there’s like there’s like a shack or some sheds and some kind of little small corral across the street from there. And >> it looks like an old mining area.
>> Yeah. I wanted to ask you about that. I was going to ask you about mining on the property. Was it mining equipment?
>> It looks like the old mining area. That location was mined or something because >> Uhhuh. There’s a there’s this outcropping of soil that’s purple or a different color than the normal mesa.
And on that soil is the selonite crystals. And I I I actually took a bunch of those crystals and put them in Homestead 2. And I had a tuning fork and I was trying to do like a tuning fork exercise where I would hit the tuning fork and then I would do a EVP session while speaking through the tuning fork of like if somebody here maybe I would that frequency would hit that paranormal wavelength and >> once again I don’t I don’t remember getting any um insane results but I >> Okay. Do you still have those cellite crystals or did you >> Oh no they’re they’re all out there.
Yeah, those >> are they still out there? there. I mean, do they still they’re just laying out there?
>> Yeah, there’s a lot out there.
>> Okay, I’ve got some other questions for you. Um, at a at a at a phenomenon out there a couple of years ago that somebody asked a question about um there being a somewhere on the mesa there is like uh like a white cross or carving of a cross and signs of of graves that there it might be a burial site. Is there is there anything Did you ever see any signs of any kind of a burial site at all on the ranch anywhere?
>> I honestly I have not and I was looking for stuff like that. Okay. I I I believe there probably is something out there.
>> I think there are actually bur if the n if they were out there for thousands of years. You’re saying in thousand years.
>> I suspect that you’ve got some kind of a burial site.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Somewhere in this area would be my guess.
>> Yeah. I want to say it’s in probably Eastern Canyon area. Yeah. or maybe on top of that meer brother. But >> I think it’s not just a spiritual site, it’s also a sacred site because it’s probably a burial site.
>> Yes.
>> Which means they would have ceremonies.
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. What about the There’s talk about these Masonic carvings like the Masonic. Where where is that on the ranch?
>> So that’s directly across Homestead One.
Uh the the It’s right there. It’s right up on the Mesa. Yeah, it’s basically directly across from Homestead One. Uh, it’s in between the the top mesa and the the bottom of the mesa. It’s a stone up there. It has an old mason picture. And what’s crazy is that I’m missing a 2014 folder that has about 500 images of the ranch. I can’t find it anywhere. And I’m looking through hard drives and thumb drives and um it has a bunch of those pictures of of that masonic symbol and more pictures of the of the of the the southern tree line stuff.
>> Oh wow. They also they also a couple years ago um did a lidar scan of a rock and got some um petroglyph.
>> Yeah.
>> Where is that located?
>> Is that area?
>> That’s going to be a further east >> up where that one X is at. It’s in that area. It’s in that area right there.
Around that area. Yeah.
>> You remember these two artifacts? What What were these artifacts?
>> That one right there that you’re pointing at the right there. That’s the paleo find. That’s the paleo find.
That’s a big one. 8,000 years ago.
Paleoind.
>> A 8,000y old. And you dated it to 8,000 years.
>> Yes. It’s a It’s an actual arrowhead point that’s like a Clovis.
>> Is it that big one that’s got though?
It’s black and white.
>> No, that was found further um east. This was as a golden color. I’ I’ve posted a couple pictures of it before.
>> Okay. Wow. And right now Chris Roberts has all those because he’s been doing more data on and more research on those artifacts.
>> Yeah. So can I ask you why why would they just leave all these arrowheads laying around? Why why would they >> do they just lose them?
>> Yeah. It’s it’s very common. They use them hunting, you know, they miss game and they leave the arrowhead there, you know, walking normal. I mean, it’s very common actually of areas of occupation to find lots of there’s probably even thousands more artifacts out there that I haven’t found or that are out there.
But when I first went out there, the ones I were finding were completely obvious. Like they had been on rocks for hundreds and thousands of years. These these artifacts were just laying there and nobody saw them. I’m like, how has nobody seen these artifacts everywhere?
It was mind-blowing to me. And then the pictures I took, some of the ones I posted online or the actual original area of how I found them.
It’s just >> and they’re just laying there on a rock.
>> They’re just laying there on a rock or on the ground or the grindstones, you know, and um >> grindstones. It seems to me that some of these um some of these arrowheads that you saw, there was one that you showed.
You’ve got a video on your YouTube channel of this white one.
>> Yes.
>> That you found. Where was that found?
>> That is going to be further west. And that’s when I went out there in 2019 as an adviser for the TV show or not an adviser, but I went out there to meet the new team and we shot an episode that never aired. And um I found so up on the I want to say it’s probably just west of the wolf trap area >> like here >> that one up there by itself that one X that’s where I found that white one and it was pointing directly east.
>> Wow. It seems to me that you could analyze these these arrowheads and determine their location you know like the kind of rock they’re from >> so that you could figure out where they came from because they’re not finding these rocks locally here.
No, that white. There’s not like white rocks where you would make that arrowhead right from some rock that was on the on the ranch area. Right.
>> Right. That one is white agot I believe.
And >> right. So where did it come from?
Where’s where do they get white?
>> There is there is a lot of agon out there. And then you went to basin.
>> Yeah, >> there is. I mean you could probably find some I know I found not I don’t think I remember finding white agot, but I found pretty close to um a white milky agot out there. Not that that area specifically, but in the basin itself >> up by the mountains in the mountains.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah.
>> That that white arrowhead that I found in 2019.
It was so bizarre. So what happened was it was like my third day being out there. We had already stopped filming or whatever. And I asked the team and the the production crew. I said, “Hey, do you mind if I go on one of my normal hikes that I used to do?” And they’re like, “Yeah, go ahead.” They’re really busy. I said, “Do you want to bring somebody along to do like some gorilla style video just in case if I find something?” And nobody Everybody just blew me off. I was like, “Okay, whatever.” I I mean, I don’t I’m not out there for TV show. I don’t care. The only reason why I went out there was to pass over important data to the team. I didn’t care about the TV show stuff. It was just to point to to take the six years of that I collected and pass it over. So, I go out that that evening, that that late afternoon, and I’m hiking around. I take pictures. I have my camera with me. I got that picture still from that that whole trip. And um as I’m walking, I look down and I see that arrowhead and I was like, “This is what’s crazy.” I said out loud in my head, in my head, I said, “What do you want me to show them?” And then I kid you not, I walk about 10 paces and that arrow head is there. That’s exactly verbatim what happened. So I took that arrow head. I was in a I couldn’t believe that it was that pristine of an arrowhead. I took it down to Thomas and Candace uh the the the caretakers at the time who have backgrounds in uh archaeology and showed them. I said, “I just found this up on the mesa and this is super important to what’s really going on out here.” And they took it and Brandon, I think he framed it and they documented it and and they did their, you know, it’s documented and framed. So, it’s it’s part of the history. It’s part of the lore. But it was that’s exactly what happened.
>> Wow. Wow. There’s a lot >> I mean, it was like it was unbelievable to find that point like that. It was a bird point, but they had those notches on it. It was just >> I’ve never found a specimen like that ever in my >> whole >> Oh, go ahead.
>> Oh, I was just going to say you’ve got like a 30-se secondond clip on your on your YouTube channel where you show >> Yeah.
>> like finding it, which is just it’s like a magical moment now that I know the story.
>> It was unbelievable. It was just like because this is in 2019. So in 2016 when I left the property I had a pretty good idea what was going on out there. For me personally it was the indigenous history which was the explanation to the property and I was perfectly fine with that and I felt like that was the most important aspect of the property and the most provable aspect of the property when I left there. So there was years where nobody had been looking for this stuff. So when I went back out there, it was like being back out there all over again because there was stuff everywhere and I’m like, “Holy cow.” But that’s I took that video of me finding it and I just it blows my mind how >> pristine that point was.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Now, when was your first paranormal experience?
>> I would say my first paranormal experience. There’s a house in Marian County, not too far where I grew up at, called the Poor House. It’s this big limestone um farmstead house built in 1886 I think or 189 I can’t remember. I I have been thinking about going back out there to photograph it. So anyways, what happened was a substitute teacher came to my high school and at the end of the class asked if anybody would help her. She and her husband bought this new property in Marian and they were going to turn to a bed and breakfast and they they needed help. So me and my buddy, my best friend, volunteered to go help her. This is back in 95 95. And um so we go to this house that’s out in the middle of nowhere. It’s this huge limestone house. and remind you I never even thought about ghosts or paranormal or of course I was a 80s kid so I’m into like Star Wars and sci-fi and ghosts and all I’m I’m into that that genre but I never thought about the reality of it basically and so we go to this house and there’s a cemetery in the front yard of this house where people died that are buried on this property.
Yeah. So we’re like what is this? And I remember thinking to myself, nobody’s gonna come out here and stay at this place because it is extremely creepy and it’s off the beaten path also, but whatever. We’re young kids, you know. I was I think I was a junior in high school at the time going in my senior year. And so me and my friend go into this house. Miss the the the teachers there, the substitute teachers there.
And it was like walking through a portal basically. You walked through the threshold and it felt like I’m somewhere where I’m not supposed to be. Like it felt like really dark dark bad stuff.
And I remember looking at my friend and we’re just like this doesn’t feel right.
So she had these rooms on the third floor or second floor. Third floor like eight rooms that cuz this place used to be like a lodging area. It was like an insane asylum at one point. It had like all this crazy history. Yeah. If you look at Marian County poor house and there’s like a vlog about it or article about it. Anyways, so she wanted us to put carpet in these rooms and make them where people can live. And so me and my friend would get to work and we would hear footsteps down the hallway. And we hear doors closed. I mean, typical poltergeist activity. And we’re just like, what the hell? But the weirdest event was we were on the second floor in this study area that she had and she had this huge immaculate garden that she was working on that her whole thing was, you know, live off the grid type thing. And she had a little living quarters down the basement. And so it was just us three on the property. Me, my buddy, and the the teacher was in the basement. And I remember we’re both looking out the window and we see this lady gardening in the garden. We thought it was uh her name is Miss Mar. We thought it was Miss Mar.
All of a sudden, we turn to the door and there’s Miss Mar standing in the door with two Pepsis in her hand. And we look at the garden and there’s nobody out there. And my my friend turned like pale white and he goes, you know, we’re both he’s like, “Uh, is somebody else out here?” And she’s like, “No, I’ve been in the basement.” and we’re like, “We just saw somebody in the garden.” And she just was like nonchalant about it and like put the Pepsis down and like walked away. Well, other weird things were happening that like poultry guy stuff.
Fast forward, we get we stopped working there because it was getting too crazy, but we would go out there and visit her cuz we felt bad for her cuz she was out there by herself.
And um we got jobs in Hillsboro, Kansas at the McDonald’s out there. And this the story sounds kind of crazy, but it all comes together. So, it was a Halloween night and we’re closing down the store and we’re telling ghost stories with like the older, you know, people working there.
And this lady, she was the manager at the McDonald’s we worked at. She starts talking about how she used to belong to a a devil worshiing cult out here. And we’re like, “What?” And she goes, “Yeah, we used to like worship the devil and do seances and sacrifice animals.” And we’re just like, “What are you talking about?” And then she goes, “And we used to do it at this old farmstead house in Marian that had a cemetery in the front yard. And me and my buddy, he was working with me at the time, looked at each other and we said, “We know that house, blah blah blah blah.” And she’s like, “Yep.” We would go there and there was a big blood I guess a big blood pentagram on the basement floor and they would do all this like demonic dark stuff and it just validated our experiences because they felt evil and they were apparently doing evil stuff there. That was my first real encounter with I guess you want to call it the paranormal.
>> Wow.
>> And it it’s 100% true story.
>> Oh yeah. I’ve been out there.
>> I I I plan on going back out there and photograph I’ll post the pictures on uh I’ll send you the pictures of the of the place when we’re done talking here.
>> Post them on X.
>> Okay, I’ll post them on X and so I can comment. We can share them with other people.
>> It was a hair raising.
And you know what’s weird?
Back in 2023, I took some buddies I work with out here. We had talked about ghost stories. I said, “I grew up in the in this area. I’ll take it to a real haunted house.” And we went out there and the lady that used to live out there, she still was occupying the house or I should say she lived close by, but she still owned the house and she met us out there and gave us a tour again. And one of the females that were with us had like a real bad episode out there where she felt like she was being possessed or something.
>> Oh my gosh.
>> And we got we got the hell out of there.
Wow. So you so your nervous system from my perspective your nervous system is attuned. You you understand the demonic and the negative.
>> Oh yeah.
>> And then you’re on Skinwalker Ranch and you now you’re experiencing the positive. Skimmark Ranch was a positive experience for you, right?
>> It was negative for a while but then it turned positive. So I learned out there.
Yeah. There was a testing ground for me personally because I realized if you stare at the shadows long enough, the shadows will stare back. And if you focus on the positive, the positive focuses back. So my focus was if you want to go out there and deal in the darkness, you can at any time. It’s out there. But I focused on the positive of and it shows through my photography. I can show you the darkness of that property during that time when I was out there. And I can show you my evolution of my photography, how I got better and brighter towards the end because I became at peace with what was out there.
Yeah. I knew there was some negative stuff out there, but I knew I I felt I felt spiritually grounded and secure and protected >> and so my photography shows that. It shows the early years of the darkness and it goes into the light. That photography was never meant to be seen by anybody. And I’m glad to share it now because it’s it’s a part of who I am now.
>> Oh, it’s it’s wonderful. It’s it’s very unique. It’s very very special. You’ve got you’ve got a style all your own and I absolutely love it.
>> I appreciate that.
>> And and the stories that you’re you’re able to tell these stories. You show like four images. You do your photog what is it? Throwback Thursdays.
>> Yeah. Throw Yeah. back.
>> Yeah. And and it’s you’re telling a little short little story there and you got the dogs and everything. I No, I I absolutely love your photography. I I I have some of it myself. I used it as a screen saver for years.
>> Yeah.
>> Your photographs out there. So, it’s wonderful. I I understand. No, there are rumors that in the UN basation that there’s a long-standing going back at least a hundred years that there is a there is a demonic cult out there that digs up bodies in the Roosevelt cemetery and the other little pioneer cemeteries out there. I don’t did you you heard that you’ve heard that as well?
>> Yeah, me and Caleb talked about that before. Uh he’s he’s encountered them personally those people.
>> So it’s real. You can confirm >> it’s real. It is real. There is a Yeah, I have I I have never encountered that.
I’ve been to some locations out there where there was probably some stuff some darkness dabbling.
>> Yeah.
>> But I don’t stay around very long. I always do a tobacco offering everywhere I go. So I I do this grounding protocol when I go to the Uenta Basin. Even when I go to areas that I believe are sacred sites specifically, I’ll go to McKe Springs. Every time I come to the basin, which I try to come out there at least twice a year. Yeah. And um I do a grounding protocol where I go to McKe Springs and I take my shoes off and I get there when it’s still dark out and I find a location at McKe Springs which I I I I feel is sacred to me. I take my boots off. I’ll ground myself and I’ll breathe and meditate as the sun’s coming over that mountain there. And as soon as I feel the sun, I’m projecting in my head my intentions for the day.
>> Yeah. And uh it kind of helps me get focused on my photography because I’m not just trying to get the cool, you know, Ansel Adam shots. I’m trying to get the detail small detail shots that people overlook all the time, you know?
Right. And then, >> right, >> and so I do this I do this grounding pro protocol where I do that and then throughout my photography session, I’ll grab two stones from that area. Nothing out of the ordinance, just like two stones that kind of speak to me. Yeah.
>> And I do a I’ll do a tobacco I’ll do a tobacco offering. say some words and then when I come back to Kansas, I’ll do another uh meditation session in my office holding those stones and then project myself back back to that timeline and then go to my photography and find images that I kind of forgot I took. Not not that I forgot I took, but I kind of go back and go through my images and that’s where I do some of that flip photography that you see.
That’s where I start doing the >> the um mirror photography and it’s >> Yeah.
>> And that’s where I that’s how I do that.
>> So, let’s zoom into the Una Basin because I’d like you to show me on on this Google uh Earth.
>> Yeah.
>> We’re out the Una Basin now. Right there’s Skinwalker Ranch. Um >> where’s that spring?
>> So, McKe Springs is actually further west uh past Vernal. Now, the protocol I was talking about I used to do on Skinwalker Ranch.
>> Okay.
long long time ago.
>> I mean 20 2012 and on basically but >> McKe Springs is actually east of Vernal, Utah about 30 minutes. It’s closer to Dinosaur National Park.
>> Okay. So you drive Oh, I know where that’s at. So you drive all the way out here and you go in the spring in the morning.
>> Yep.
>> Okay.
>> And that’s where I do my protocol right there. Yep.
>> Every single time you go out there.
>> Every time. Yeah, I even took in in 2023 I took my kids out there and we all did together.
>> Oh, that’s awesome.
>> Yeah.
>> While I’ve got this map up, um so let’s talk a little bit really quickly about Blind Frog Ranch.
>> Yeah.
>> So there’s there’s Blind Frog Ranch.
>> Mhm.
>> Right.
There we go. And then there’s, you know, there’s the like the water where they had the frogs come out, right? And this is the magnetic place.
>> Mhm. And then there’s the bead site, right?
>> The bead site. Yeah.
>> Um, what’s the weirdest thing that you’ve experienced on Blind Frog Ranch?
>> You personally?
>> Um, nothing. I haven’t experienced anything negative or posit. I mean, >> that area, especially the bead site, it’s a sacred site. I mean, >> I wanted to ask about the bead site >> because I think that’s a sacred site as well.
>> It’s bizarre that they’ve got these beads that are from I think they say they were from Italy or something like that.
>> And what are they doing? and and they go up there and they’ve got these little dollar bills and they’ve got all these coins.
>> What it it looked to me like it’s an active sacred site that the the youths out there know there’s something there and they don’t tell the whites.
>> This is one thing they don’t really talk about on on these shows is the cultural gulf between, you know, there are some youths out there that interact with the whites, but there’s a whole subset >> of youths out there that won’t talk to whites.
>> Yeah.
>> They’ve got their own culture out there and they’re doing their own thing. And >> I mean they understand the land and they respect the land and people go out there and don’t respect the land. And when you don’t respect the land, the land bites back. I mean that’s the reality of it.
>> Yeah.
>> Um when I first went out there I wasn’t I went out there in 2021.
It was just me, James, Kin, and Dwayne Oliger. And we we were out there for a week, just us three just up and up and down the hills in the mountain area and just exploring, just looking for. And this is before TV show stuff. I mean, I didn’t even know about a TV show. This is just me and James doing some Scooby-Doo adventures basically out there. You know, I always tell people the basin is a never- ending Scooby-Doo adventure and we were really good doing some Scooby-Doo adventure stuff, but we’re looking for artifacts. We’re looking for anything, you know, treasure or whatever. That’s the big rumor out there is treasure. And we were looking for it, you know, and uh that bead site is definitely sacred ground.
>> So, what do you think the actual Native Americans do there at the bead site?
What do they do? Are they are these prayers? Is this >> Yeah.
>> Why would prayer?
>> Do you think it’s a burial? Is it a burial site? Why >> it might be? I my impression is it’s so sacred they’re not going to tell the whites what it is.
>> Exactly. And also speaking of sacred sites, have you seen those images I posted of X of the hanging animal skins on the poles?
>> Yes. The Skimoka Ranch. Yeah.
>> Yes. On the west side. Yeah.
>> Uh that that’s technically off the property. That is also a sacred site.
That’s >> well if you look on the maps on the plots, all of the land around there, a lot of it is Native American land still.
owned by the owned by the tribe.
>> Yeah.
>> I’ve got another question for you. So, there’s Blind Frog Ranch.
>> Mhm.
>> Right. And um >> there’s a canyon. I don’t even remember the name of it. So, there’s White Rocks, right? There’s a cave in >> there’s a white rock. Do you know there’s a cave in White Rocks?
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. I’ve been to that cave as as a kid. We went into that cave. There’s there’s there’s supposedly another canyon up here and I can’t remember which one. And it’s Native American land. and you have to get their permission and it appar I saw some things online and I talked to some people and they they this little canyon and it’s got a gate and you can’t get in the canyon unless you’ve got permission but they call it they call it Skinwalker Canyon.
>> Oh yes, I’ve >> you know what I’m talking about?
>> I Yes. Yes, I do.
>> Um Am I right about what it’s location?
It’s like somewhere in here.
>> Yeah, it’s it’s around there. I’ve been I’ve been up there. I took photographs up there, too. So, so you’ve you’ve got permission and went up there.
>> We We didn’t go onto that land. We went next to it.
>> Okay.
>> From afar. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And it’s called Skinwalker Canyon because that’s like where they live >> or it’s called Dark Canyon or >> Dark Canyon is another name for Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Now, the whole Skinwalker Legend certainly overlaps with, you know, they they they’ve been have people on the show and they’ve even had an episode of uh um Beyond Skinwalker Ranch down in Four Corners where they talk about there’s there’s some demonic rituals performed by native Navajo and you know, they have to kill somebody they love and they learn these dark rights and then they they actually become the shape-shifting skinw walkers.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and so there might be these werewolves up here that are some kind of a direwolf that live in the mountains.
That’s my theory is there might be direwolves up there, right?
>> That might be >> Does that make sense?
>> It does. I People think it’s crazy talk, but when you go up there physically and you spend time up there, you’ll feel it.
>> Yeah, that’s my guess. But there’s also these, you know, humans that have turned into skinwalkers to some degree. And my family and some other families I know in the oasis, there’s also rumors of some kind of a dark cult that practice rituals of they’re able to carve animals up while they’re still alive.
And it’s these and and they’ve done it on humans as well. I don’t want to get too gruesome here, but there’s also that as well. And they like when the when the whites first came out to the una basin, there was some problems between the whites and how they were mistreating the native people out there. And then some of the white soldiers were found carved up and it was and but they were people dressed as they were dressed as skinwalkers and came and got these white guys and and exercise revenge on them for the way they had been mistreating the natives.
>> Yeah. I think it’s referred to I think it’s partially the Blackhawk Wars.
>> Yeah. Yeah, that as well. So, there’s there’s a lot of cultural stuff going on out there. There is. As soon as you come over, you you come drop into uh Duchaine, right?
>> As soon as you drop into Duchaine, you it’s a different place out there. The Una Basin is its own.
>> It’s a whole different world.
>> It is. It’s a whole different world.
There’s a spiritual component to it.
There’s a creepy component. Um, have you heard about the poltergeist activity on in Randollet?
>> Um, >> you see how Randlet is right here?
>> Yeah, I’ve been over there.
>> So, this is this is Skinwalker Ranch.
And this right here, >> this property here is the Bets Farm.
>> Okay.
>> And and I my experience was I rode a horse out here and went across this fence line. And then right here on the corner of the property is where I saw I saw a craft on the ground and I saw a being uh in a like a hazmat suit.
>> Wow.
>> Um and I was on a horse and it it stood up and it pointed what looked like a haird dryer at me and just with these bright colors and I don’t know how long that went on. I was kind of zoned out on the horse. The horse was completely calm but I was freaking out.
And when I came to, the craft was in the air and it just shot up over the mea really fast.
And I turned around and just rode that horse and went back rode across the fields, went through the fence here and got back to the to the to the farm and told my family. And then >> year was that?
>> That was 1980.
>> Wow.
>> I was 11 years old. There’s a fence. It was right right here. I was walking the horse along the fence line because of the gulch. Right.
>> Yeah. And right about here, I smelled some sweet, sickly maple syrup.
>> You said like like pancake syrup, right?
>> It smelt like a wonderful breakfast >> with pancake and bacons and syrup, right? And butter >> and and it they just lured me in and then I came right around here and that craft was like right here.
>> No kidding.
>> That’s where it was. Yeah. And and then the funny thing is I told, you know, I told my uncle and there was a lot of drama in my life because of that and I got bullied and I didn’t talk about it.
I didn’t talk I didn’t actually go publicly until I talked. Do you remember me talking to you a couple years ago?
>> Yeah.
>> And I said, “I finally want to tell my story publicly.” >> Yes.
>> And your advice, I talked to Ryan Skinner. I talked to Shannon Dalvo >> and some other people. And I said, I’m thinking of coming out publicly, but I know I’m going to >> I’m going to get, you know, viscerated in the public for this.
>> Yeah.
>> Should I do this? And you told me, you said, everybody said, you got to be true to yourself and tell the truth.
>> Absolutely. If you feel if you feel like you need to now come out after all these years, my my name is in the hunt for the skinwalker.
>> My my name is in that book and the the original article in the Desireette News in 1996.
A reporter called me and I talked to him and he put my name in the newspaper and I asked him not to. And so I was harassed. That’s a whole backstory. This interview is about you, not me. But while we’re here, I’m just showing you.
But the thing I wanted to tell you was so you know this is where they the farm was. So my uncle Grant you know when the story came out about the Shermans uh you know they they this reporter went and asked them he went around to all the neighbors of of the ranch right and asked them if they’d ever had any paranormal activity and my uncle it was it was supposed to be a family secret.
He told him he said yeah I got a nephew that had this experience in 19 and so he called me on the phone. So the next time I went out to the to the UN Basin for our family reunion, I pulled my uncle aside, Uncle Grant, why did you why did you tell this reporter my experience, >> right?
>> And you know what he told me? He said, “I’ll tell you what, Dean.” He said, “When this whole thing with the Shermans went down, I thought that they were making it up. I thought that he was making this up because he he I think he lived in White Rocks or something and he bought he bought the ranch, the he bought the Myers ranch, and he wasn’t being successful.” And I thought he was making up these stories because he was gonna flip the property, right? And and that’s my and but my uncle Grant said, “But you know what?” I talked to him and I was I kind of wondered about it and he said, “And then Dean,” he said, “I had a cow. It was a pregnant cow and it was right in the corner of that property, right here on this fence line under these bushes.” He went out there because this used to be this didn’t used to be this round thing. It used to be just a a field for grazing, right? Mhm.
>> And he said he went out there and the the cow was it was a heer. It was about ready to give birth. It was it was in the process of of giving birth, but he had the whole the herd of cows out here.
So he quickly herded the cows back to the corral, which is right right here, right? And then he he had a four-wheeler and he drove the four-wheeler back out there to help birth this calf. And the cow was gone.
>> Really? and and he said there’s no way the cow could not have gotten up. There was no sign that it had even been there and it was gone. Now he told me that in 1990 96 the summer the fall of 96 >> is when he told me that but you know and this was before the report you know it was just the reporter that year and then my uncle had that experience in 1996 and he said it’s all true.
>> Yeah, >> I believe it.
>> Yeah. So, um, you know, that it’s it’s it’s Yeah. And and it’s it’s followed me ever since. I had I’ve documented this.
I’ve had, you know, shadow experiences, hitchhiker effects.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Over the years, and it’s it’s it’s never left me. I’ve had all kinds of, you know, negative experiences result of what’s happened out there.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I We had a lot of negative things happen. Well, to me, too, but also people on my team also had negative things happen. So, it’s real. I mean, the phenomena we would call it, it’s it’s real. There’s pros and cons to it.
>> It It hasn’t followed you home.
>> Yeah. We had a hitchhiker experience in 2011 that was documented. Me and my wife. Yeah.
>> In your house.
>> It was a little apartment in in Vegas.
Yeah.
>> Oh, wow.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It was Yeah. I don’t I really don’t like talking about it too much, but >> Same here. I don’t like talking about it.
>> Yeah. It It was weird. It was uh yeah, >> you know, I I stay I I stay I try to stay pretty grounded because of my professional background of all the stuff I did before coming to Skinwalker, you know, with the Air Force and the DOE and even for for Groom Lake and stuff. So when it comes to like the nuts and bolts of the phenomena, I feel pretty grounded in that conversation because of where I used to work. But when you enter the other side of the spiritual aspect and the things you can see, I don’t discount it. And I’m not going to be arrogant to say, “Oh, that’s just a bunch of No, I’m a firm believer. I’m a firm believer that there is some life out there in the universe.” But also, when it comes to the paranormal, is there’s something definitely real to that aspect. And once you kind of open up your perception to that, you allow that energy to come in.
And it’s about how you uh balance that energy, you know. Yeah. You know, Chris, what I love about you on X, I I I I give a heart to everything you post on X for the last three or four years while I followed you. You are like the best voice of sanity when it comes to this whole bizarre full disclosure UAP.
>> Yeah.
>> All that nuts andbolt stuff and what goes on between M West and everybody else.
>> Yeah.
>> Your background in the Air Force >> is just and what you have a handle on this this whole thing. And now we’ve got perfect timing, Chris. You know, you’ve seen what the president of United States said last week >> and and your take on it, I think, is the most sane take on this whole thing.
>> Yeah. I just feel like I feel like if there was ever a time in our history where we made contact with something, it would be thousands of years ago when we were d when our when our ancestors were deeply connected to the rhythms of the earth and and the universe and there there was no distractions. There was no BS. It was that’s the entities that would come here spiritually or or maybe in craft and make contact with that. Not now. Not now when we’re blowing each other up and killing each other for for different types of religious beliefs.
Now, maybe the artifacts have been recovered from back then, but when it comes to like modern-day crashes and especially crash and recovery, that’s my biggest pet peeve. I’ve been on several crash and recovery missions for the Air Force and I know the optics and the protocols for that whole program. And so people in the UFO community love to toss the the crash and recovery stuff around like it’s some type of thing out of a movie. And it is the furthest thing away from a movie. It is real. It don’t even get me started on it. But I try to keep a very grounded approach when it comes to this topic. I’m a believer that there is something to it. the phenomenon. But a lot of this is people don’t understand the counter intelligence and the need to know protocols and people have tanked their professional careers violating those protocols and then when they get violated the eagle gets involved and then they think that well I should have a need to know because somebody told me I had the clearance to go and look for this stuff and that’s not how it works.
If when it comes to special access programs, if your name’s not on that special access log, you’re not getting in. That’s just how it is. And I wish I could have some crazy story where it’s like, I saw alien aircraft or alien bodies. And I I never did.
>> You mentioned crash retrieval. Let’s be clear. When you say crash retrievals, you mean like an aircraft crashed?
>> Yes. I mean >> US military craft, not a not alien craft, right?
>> Yeah. I’ve been on I’ve been on helicopter crashes, fighter jet crashes.
I’ve even been on drone crashes before and there is strict protocols and all those events. And I can only imagine if an alien spaceship crashed on Earth. The protocols wouldn’t shrink. They would expand tremendously and there’d be all hands on deck situation and that location would be locked down for decades uh being analyzed.
>> Yeah.
>> It’s not like the movies. It just isn’t.
And yeah, >> it’s it just I I have a serious problem with it >> cuz it’s like >> and I spent all that time on the Nellis range and to say this and I talked about this on X in 1999 myself and four other airmen were on a crash and recovery mission right outside of Groom Lake by Rachel, Nevada on a dry lake bed where two F-15s crashed. They actually collided and crashed. And we were out there for a whole week. And while we were out there on one night, we witnessed technology being tested that was at the time way advanced. It looked like a laserg guided drone system was being tested. And this is the 99. But and the two guys that were with us, the two sergeants that were with us were on the F-17 stealth project as a security role. So they were like, “What was that?” And we’re all like watching this stuff go down. But at the time, maybe we had the professional fortitude not to go whistleblow because we understood what we saw was in support of air power, global dominance, which is the whole mission of the Air Force. And now space force, that’s the real next agenda is space force and space war. That’s going to happen. And so how that’s achieved is by keeping everyone in the dark. You’re not going to know about new technology until they have to actually roll it out.
And that’s just the reality of it. And over the years, I’ve just scratched my head at some of these people that are viewed as uh UFO messiahs or whistle or whatever. And I’m like, no, you worked at a test facility and you saw technology that you were not read into, just like I was not read into the stuff that we saw in 99. But we didn’t go and tell everybody because it just was when you work in a testing facility area, you’re going to see in the sky.
You’re gonna see you’re going to experience weird That’s just how it is. And all the people that I always say, um, it’s not ours.
They want to know that because they’re not I always, this is how this is how I I I break it down is you can be the smartest person in the room. You can have the most, you know, fourstar general, the president, the craziest titles. What matters then in this conversation is where have you physically worked? If you haven’t worked anywhere where new technology is being developed and tested like for the DOE or Lockheed or Dougway proving grounds or area 51, then you don’t have a need to know.
You’re you then you’re just an outsider looking in. And there and from my experience and from what my observations were when I got hired with Bass, there was a lot of individuals who had spent their whole careers from the outside looking in. And that’s just the honest truth about it. And that may hurt some people’s feelings, but that’s the reality of it. I came in and I was like, what are these guys talking about?
Because I’ve worked because my my role in that environment was safeguarding and protecting those assets. And while most people saw this much of the picture, the security details sees this much of the picture because our role is to protect all these special access programs. So you may be an engineer or a scientist and you’re only seeing a sliver of the pie while my role we were seeing the big for the majority the whole pie because that was our job was to protect the the assets the fighters any PL1 resource from nuclear weapons to stealth fighters to to uh anything that’s uh considered a priority level one resource is always going to have a physical guard nearby or two or three or four depending on the resource. It’s not going to be like in the movies, it’s always like a UFO’s in a hanger just by itself or whatever.
That would never happen unless that UFO is being used as an integrity test.
Because I’ll say this, when you work for the DOE or or 51, you are constantly being evaluated on your mental state and your mouth if you’re running your mouth too much or if you’re saying stuff. And they’ll they’ll put things out there to see if you’re going to talk. All right.
They’ll they’ll put fake stuff out there and then if somebody says, “I saw this.” They know you you’re the link.
>> And they’ll yank your clearance away.
They’ll yank it immediately. It’s an integrity test.
>> Happens all the time. And it doesn’t stop. It doesn’t stop after you get your clearance. It actually ramps up.
>> Does that explain Bob Lazar?
>> I think it does because before him, this is what and this is from me working with that organization. before that individual showed up, there was already 10,000 DoD contractors and employees who worked out there prior to him. And you’re trying to tell me he’s the only guy that’s going to whistle, blow, and talk when you have 10,000 people and this is in the ‘9s. I’m not saying he didn’t work out there. He probably did work out there, but he knew enough of the lingo to like he knew that the days that new crack was being tested. That’s pretty much common knowledge out there. or even the locals in Rachel, Nevada know that.
But when his story kind of falls apart is when Robert Bigalow talks about it on his Jeffrey Mislo interview where Robert Bigalow says that he employed Lazar and gave him a warehouse in Vegas to continue his work. And what does Lazar do? He uses that warehouse to store store furniture. I mean, it doesn’t make any sense to me. It just seems like it just doesn’t add up. So, as much as I want to believe his, the only thing I do like about Bob’s stories is he talks about the recovered archaeological craft or whatever, that’s something I do probably I believe in. I will I haven’t seen that. I I I mean I I haven’t seen that, but I believe in that narrative because that would make sense because like I said, 4,000 years ago, maybe something crashed here and we recovered it now. Who knows?
>> So, what do you think that the Pentagon is is sitting on and the contractors? I think honestly it’s just a bunch of I think a lot of it I think a lot of it is and there is some truth sprinkled inside of it, but there’s so many layers of just nonsense that have been regurgitated over and over again that it muddies the water so much. Like there’s a good book to read. It’s by Annie Jacobson called Area 51.
And she interviewed like 50 or 60 of the, you know, the road runners of people that first started Area 51. And um it talks about how the CIA was really using the narrative to mask our technology being tested and developed which makes perfect sense, >> right?
>> And but obviously throughout the years stories grow, people have experiences and those can be used or weaponized. I say that but I also believe that there is a real phenomenon to some of this stuff. So, I don’t know. Hopefully, um, you know, I heard that, um, Trump was briefed about the grays and Nordics or whatever. I hope that that evidence that he was shown gets presented to the public so we can see it, too.
>> Or is this just a big disinformation campaign? If anything’s released officially from the government and they start releasing photographs and videos, you know, aren’t we just going to know it’s AI generated? you. They’ve had a disinformation campaign going on. You like it’s it goes back to the Cold War.
>> Yeah.
>> And and as soon as they developed stealth technology, when did the stealth technology actually start, right?
>> Oh god.
>> You get the stealth you get the stealth uh you know bomber in. When was that actually made public? Like in the 90s.
>> They must have been working on that in the 50s, right?
>> And yeah, they were. As a matter of fact, you know, it’s here’s where I spend a lot of my time at nowadays. I watch every single Space Force or Space Command speech or meeting or conversation. I listen to all the I’ve probably listened to thousands of hours in the last three years of Space Force and Space Command’s lingo and how they talk. And not once has extraterrestrial threat has ever come up. They’re always talking about the threats with China and Russia. And that’s the and no ma I’ll say this. No matter what gets disclosed tomorrow, let’s say they roll out the alien bodies and the alien tech and it’s legit. The Space Force mission is not going to change. It’s going to be okay, cool, we have that. We’re going to still fight China and Russia in the future and that’s our focus. That’s the reality of it because I listen to these guys who are top tier military professionals and they’re talking some of the lingo they’re saying has spilled into the UFO community and has been spinned. And I’m like, okay, I know exactly what he’s talking about because from my operational background, that makes sense. And I like I still talk to all my friends of the DOE and when I talked about UFOs and stuff, they almost laugh me out of the room. Like it’s just like we all when we graduate the academy the first thing you do is like where’s the aliens at? Where’s the bodies at?
Where’s and the old-timers are just like shaking their heads like come on. I mean a good reality is people need to watch that documentary Downwind about the Nevada test site testing and how we basically poison the entire southwest of the United States. And you’re trying to tell me that aliens there to stop that when we killed everything out there and humans and the ground sources and the water sources. And I mean, I watched that documentary and I just kept thinking, where are the aliens at? Where are they at?
>> It just doesn’t make any sense to me.
>> Yeah. I I wonder if the whole full disclosure movement is is actually a disinformation campaign to confuse our our adversaries, right? Does that make sense? Because the Chinese and the Russians are probably going, “Is the tic tac is that American tech or is that alien tech?” >> Yeah, it definitely I mean that that definitely when that first whole thing came out, I was like, “That makes sense.” We had pilots reporting stuff that didn’t have a need to know that observed technology that was being tested in the ocean. I when that first story came out, I’m like, “Okay, that that tracks with my story and 99 where we saw technology being tested that we didn’t have anything to know about.” >> Yeah. But we just going to go talk about it because this is how it was. But I will say this, like going back to your story, what makes the basin unique and I think James Keen has a really good um theory or a hypo or a theory about it.
He believes there’s certain areas of the basin where the past, present, and future overlap through either magnetic anomalies or whatever. He believes that there is an areas out there where the past, present, and future overlap. So that may explain the direwolf experiences. That may explain your experience or other people’s experiences.
>> And the Shermans, the Shermans, they saw like a portal in the air and they saw >> right >> it was like nighttime and it was daytime in in this portal.
>> They had this big huge wnebago hovering over the if you actually look at it makes a lot of sense. I I recently did an interview with Dr. Eric Wargo who has written books on on on time basically and his last book’s called time fairing and he talks about how there’s theoretically there’s a technology where you could actually have a building.
>> It’s not a ship. It’s an inside of a chamber. Okay, >> that’s what I mean. You have you have a laboratory with a circular chamber which is your wormhole chamber and you generate a wormhole in that chamber and that chamber becomes one mouth of the wormhole with the other mouth projected somewhere else. That other mouth from a distance it’s going to look just like a spherical or cylindrical whatever shape that chamber is. It’s going to look like that turned inside out. But then as you got closer to it, only then it would like really look weird and you ask right into it.
>> If this shows up on Skinwalker Ranch, they would see they would see that in the sky. But the people looking out the window of the craft would actually be the people >> looking into the wormhole.
>> They’re looking into the wormhole. And when you look at it, they’re looking at you. Yes. It looks like they’re inside the wormhole.
>> Right. and and he’s talked to physicists and he’s talked to scientists and and I even talked to him in the interview. I said, “Well, maybe maybe in the future they built one of these somewhere in the UN basin.” >> Yeah.
>> And and it’s causing some kind of time dilation. That’s interesting. He would say the same thing.
>> That’s interesting. Yeah. That that I mean that could be I I’m not ruling that. I mean, >> yeah, >> I feel like the >> the people that are out there physically spending time out there understand that there is some weird stuff out there that happens.
>> Yeah.
>> Just kind of scratch your head about it and just some people just move on and some people, you know, it’s just there’s some life-changing stuff that happens out there. I know for and you know it as well.
>> Yeah.
>> And and at the same time, there’s people that live their whole lives out there and they’re like, there’s nothing going on.
>> Yeah.
>> They think it’s all >> Yeah.
Yes.
>> And it’s hard to explain, you know, it’s wow, there’s just so much to this.
>> I even like piggy back to the whole UAP topic. I think a lot of it is but I still believe that there is maybe a possibility of an archaeological discoveries that maybe we did, you know, I’m not ruling that out. That could be a possibility. I just think that the majority of stuff that we see in today’s climate is just counterintelligence stuff being pushed down people’s throats. Well, you know, but there are reports, you know, where people like over Chicago, there was that craft over Chicago. There were people that took pictures and the military shows up and they take everybody’s cameras and they confiscate everything. You know, you’ve heard those stories. You know, they’re like the Virginia thing down in Brazil where supposed military came and they got the craft and they got the bodies and they flew it away.
>> You know, do you do you think that’s true? Do you think that that that at least there at a minimum there’s a part of the of the military that goes and and just collects all this information?
Because if it really was like if it was military tech, they would do that, right?
>> Yeah, for sure.
>> If a bunch of people got video of a of a stealth fighter in the 90s, they would have confiscated all that footage, right?
>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. For sure. A lot of it is advanced technology. And I think if you even look at the history of uh project Oxcart with the SR71 and we crashed those birds and the the recovery missions for some of those stories were pretty wild and we went to great lengths when Russia or China even a down submarine one time a nuclear submarine I think they used even uh Hugh uh Howard Hughes as a cover they used him one time to go retrieve this stuff. So, it’s not uncommon for the government to use private industries to retrieve technology that they can reverse engineer. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s alien technology. It just means it’s adversarial technology, you know.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, but I I believe it. I mean, >> I don’t know. I hope that there’s something does come positive with this whole disclosure thing and either But I just have a bad feeling about it.
I feel like whatever they’re going to produce is going to be ripped to shreds.
Yeah, I think it’s going to be a show. It’s going to be a show.
They’re going to release something. You know what? You know how it is on X.
>> Yeah.
>> They’re g the military is going to release something photograph or something >> and then everybody in the community on both sides is going to jump on it, right?
>> Yeah.
>> You’re going to have the debunkers and you’re going to have the the fans and they’re going to start arguing over the photograph and then they’re going to release something a week later.
>> Yeah.
>> And they’re just going to drag this out and it’s just going to be a distraction and drama.
>> Seven years. Yeah. Seven years. will be that and then in that 70 years you’re going to see Space Force build up and and that’s that’s the that’s the smoking gun that nobody’s paying attention to is I challenge people in the UFO community to go listen to just two hours of any space command or space force speeches or talks and listen to how they’re talking and they’re just like laser focused about we’re going to be fighting China and Russia in space dominance is the key and I’m just like holy it’s going to happen that’s that’s the whole thing is who can maneuver in space quickly and take out other people’s satellites because whoever controls the high ground controls the playing field below and that’s and we want that because that’s just how America is. We want global power and global control and that’s what makes us an elite fighting force and that’s just the reality of it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Meanwhile, there’s really something going on there. The paranormal is is real. Meanwhile, Meanwhile, we got petroglyphs from 4,000 years ago that show that something was going on and humans were like, “Hey, we’ll write this down so people can, you know, stay connected.” And what do we do? We took down those those petroglyph sites and we forget about them and we forget about the indigenous cultures and their history and how these people were truly and when I say indigenous, I’m not just talking about Native Americans. I’m talking about we all come from indigenous backgrounds. All of our ancestors come from it. So all of our humanity 4,000 years ago, we’re just on a whole different spectrum of reality that we are not not in today. We’re in a we’re in a digital mindset of like I I like to call it like right now we’re seeing uh digital nuclear bombs going off in real time with the Black Mirror devices that are programming humanity off 10-second video clips. And now with AI, like you said, you can’t tell what’s real and what’s fake. So humanity is done. we we’re it’s over.
The only the only saving grace is like a massive solar flare just wiping us out or whatever. But I mean, let’s be real here. The future of evolution of AI.
We’re we’re going to come to a point where we’re going to look back at society and go, I wish we would have threw away these Black Mirror devices 20 years ago and went back to the 80s or 90s, even early 90s.
>> I think there’s a whole generation of young people that feel that way, too.
They wish they they they see the 80s movies.
>> Yeah.
>> And they wish they they grew up in the 80s.
>> Oh, absolutely.
>> Because we didn’t have cell phones.
>> We weren’t better. It just was we just didn’t have the the technology. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So So Chris, let me understand what you’re really saying here. At the end of the day, bottom line, these non-human intelligences that you you believe actually, you know, have been with us for a while, Robert Bigalow said they walk among us. Are are NHI interacting with humans today?
Are they?
>> I think so. I think s I think so through consciousness. I think if you want to interact with nature, >> I think through consciousness, you have to tap into the real stuff which is nature and that elevates your consciousness for you to have experiences or maybe get or maybe get downloads because the end of the day is this. We’re all going to leave this this planet one day. And if you want your celestial spirit to go forward in the future, the best advice I can give people is create as much positive energy while you’re plugged into the matrix because that’s the only way that’s going to spring you forward. How much positive energy can I degenerate while I’m here and focus on to push my spirit forward in the future? Because I think at the end of the day, the only thing we have is time. Time well spent. and that is with your loved ones, with your friends and families, having positive interactions and experiences, and avoid the noise as much as possible because when you’re on your deathbed, you’re not going to be thinking about a disclosure movement or what the president said or whatever. You’re going to think about I wish I had more time with my family and we got to experience more stuff. So, my advice is while you’re here, promote positive energy and spring. That’s why you spring forward.
But I do believe I do kind of a side with Robert Bigalow when he talks about that. I think what he means is consciousness is the way to connect and download some good intel basically to make a better self of yourself to make a better person of you. You know, I don’t really believe I don’t really believe that maybe they’re walking with like aliens are walking with us basically.
I I I need evidence. I’m an evidence-based guy. Basically, when it comes to that type of statements, if you’re going to make bold claims like that, you better have evidence to back it up. I mean, honestly, >> but you know how the phenomenon works.
It you know, the direwolf just disappears >> and and you you go to take a recording and and the sounds turns off.
>> Yeah.
>> There there is something about it won’t it doesn’t want to be proven. It there it seems like the phenolin always wants there to be plausible doubt.
>> Yeah, I agree. And so there is no hard evidence.
>> Yeah. Very, very hard to find good hard evidence. I mean, the evidence from that wolf incident were my photographs of the prince. That’s about as far as we got with that.
>> But it’s easily dismissible, right?
>> It could it could be dismissed. Yes.
>> Unfortunately.
>> Yeah, it could be.
>> Yeah.
>> Wow. What a what a life you’ve had, Chris.
>> It’s been interesting.
>> You at least know these orbs are real.
What do you think they are?
>> What are they? much.
>> Yeah, I think a lot of it is spirit or it’s it’s um it’s um residual energy that’s in the in an area that manifests and shows itself as like either reminder or a warning signal or something or is trying to communicate. I think a lot of it might be residual energy, you know, a typical ghost stuff, you know. Um, but yeah, that incident with the hanger 858 propulsion building, that was wild because all of there was about eight of us, 12 of us that all witnessed that all different shades of diversity and and and and male and fe were just it. Yeah, that was pretty wild. That was long before going to Skinwalker. I was still in the Air Force and that >> Yeah, I know. That was pre-skinwalker and the orange orbs when you were younger on the farm. Yeah, that was when I was in high school and that was a really weird cuz my parents live in the middle of nowhere like I said and I was coming back from work and I was driving down a dirt road. I look up in the sky and I see a triangle of these three massive orange orbs that look like they were floating and I stopped, got out of the car and just stood there looking at them. And then I flew into my parents’ property and I can see my parents through the window looking at watching TV and I can see the orbs like still gliding through our pasture into the into the west. So I run in the house and my parents come out. We all see it and then they disappear. Not like blink but they kind of fade away. And then the next day at school my neighbor who lives like I don’t know 50 miles away from me south of me in a whole different farming community. He reported seeing the same stuff and we and we were just we didn’t even really uh like best friends. We were just like friends. But he goes, “I saw the weirdest thing last night. I saw these three giant orbs in the sky.” And I’m like, “What?” >> So whatever it was, I have no idea.
>> Well, you know, in my interview uh with Dr. Eric Wargle, you know, he wrote the time book. The first experience he ever had with the paranormal was he was waiting to see some fireworks and it was getting dark and he saw orange orbs and he actually re everybody saw them there and he reported it to Mufon and that’s when he realized something’s real and he ends up writing this book about time fairing. It’s it’s real and I think it was the phenomenon. I do I I you know what do you feel in the presence of the orb >> at that specific one in a hanger? I felt fear.
>> You sense a consciousness?
>> Uh I don’t think I s I felt like I felt like um a presence there like an energy presence like I felt something was there. Like you know how you get that feeling where somebody walks up behind you. You don’t see them yet but >> yeah you felt a presence right?
>> Felt the presence there. when I feel consciousness like on spiritual levels when I’m doing my grounding protocol like McKe I am really tapping into something and it’s just allows me to take some of these pictures I share with people but also this helps me focus on what’s real keeps me grounded you know >> I think that’s important >> well Chris we’ve been talking for two hours thank you so much for your time >> oh you’re welcome man I I appreciate the conversation I’m glad we finally did it >> I I just want to encourage everyone that’s watching is follow him on X.
Chris, you’re just Chris Bartell on X.
>> Yeah. Chris Bartell SWR there.
>> Yep. Yep. And and then you’ve got your your Patreon where you’ve got all your photography.
>> Yep.
>> Which is awesome.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I’ll put links in the description below so that people can uh hook up with you. And as we as this craziness, we’re just the craziness just started because the president just made this announcement a couple of days ago.
>> And I think we’re I think this craziness is going to go on for a long time. And you you are my you are my sanity check.
You’re the one you’re the one guy I absolutely trust on X. Chris >> through the like a lightsaber.
>> I I I tried to and it makes some people don’t like that. I know.
>> But I I I have to stay true to my professional background because I’m like I and I and some of these people I know I know some of these people that are talking. I’m like I’ve listened to their speeches. I’ve listened to them talk and I’m like you’re telling me that you basically violated need to know protocol and you can your career and show me something that’s if you’re going to say stuff out, you better bring some real hard evidence. I’m sorry. If the president comes out tomorrow and says we got aliens and and craft, you better be showing the people the evidence because if not, what’s the point? What’s are they going to pay our taxes? No. We’re going to still pay our taxes. Aliens ain’t going to, you know, fix war. We’re still going to go to war with Iran.
Great. More loss of human life. It’s just, it never ends. So, humanity is on this brink of destruction. It’s just unbelievable.
>> Yeah. I think things are going to get better in the long run. Don’t you?
>> I hope so. Yeah. Either. Yeah.
>> Yeah. There’s going to be survivors.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> All right, Chris. Well, hopefully we can check in. I’d love to talk to you maybe in the fall, maybe in six months.
>> Yeah.
>> And just get a recap of all the that’s going on. Okay, Chris. Thank you so much.
>> You’re welcome, man.
>> Okay. Take care. Take care.