Skinwalker Ranch owner says former AARO Director Sean Kirkpatrick lied, shows proof | Reality Check

[Music] Good day and welcome back to another episode of Reality Check. And this week, I’m very pleased to bring back to the show one of our good friends, Brandon Fugal, the owner of Skinw Walker Ranch, real estate entrepreneur extraordinaire, and someone who’s taken a very close, commendable scientific interest in the UAP mystery. Brandon, welcome back to Reality Check.
It’s great to be with you, Ross. Look forward to our discussion. So, we’re obviously going to talk about your new Skinwalker series, your latest Skinwalker series, and congratulations on that. I think you guys are beginning to break into some very interesting science. But be before we go there, I really want to draw you on the saga of the two-part Wall Street Journal investigation, so-called, into claims made by Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, where essentially the former head of Arrow, the all domain anomaly resolution office, the Pentagon’s UFO investigation office in a kind of a departing spat had his flim vent at anybody who takes the UFO UAP subject seriously. What was your take on the Wall Street Journal stories, Brandon? Well, for one thing, it’s it it was hilarious in that it it showed uh quite clearly that that there was really no due diligence conducted, no historical research uh conducted into the phenomena. uh they completely dismissed the absolute fact and reality that that you know not only the United States but other countries have been have been commenting on the phenomena for a long long time and it’s obviously that they have a certain narrative a certain um agenda and that is to to discredit the uh the mysterious nature of the phenomena and the fact that I believe not only the United States government but other world governments I think they are still baffled and likely do not understand the origin or the agenda behind the phenomena. I think it’s uh it’s something that continues to uh to create quite a stir within our national security apparatus and others across the country and and the world.
You know, it’s funny you should say that because I’m increasingly coming to the view that one of the reasons for the secrecy is because the A type men that run our military and industrial complex, the the intelligence community, they don’t like admitting what they don’t know. Is that your take as well that a lot of the mystery is what’s confounding the the the desire for public transparency? Yeah, I I think that we have a bonafideed mystery that’s uh that’s been around since the beginning of time. Uh the fact that our skies are being uh violated, you know, that our skies have seen unidentified aerial phenomena or flying objects for generations if not millennia. And I think the answers to to really you know what or who is behind it and and the agenda the uh the intent I think is elusive and I think that’s terrifying. The implications are terrifying when you look at really what what uh people must be grappling with at the highest levels.
So I just want to come back for a moment to Dr. Sean Kirkpatre. And I I think it’s important because the Wall Street Journal is one of America’s premier newspapers. It’s the business newspaper.
It gets on the tables and the boardroom desks of every major corporation in the country. It’s influential.
Sure. I’ve been I’ve been reading it since I was a teenager. I I had uh my own subscription to the Wall Street Journal as a as a teenager in high school and considered it a a a standard a a reputable source of information and intelligence.
Can I ask you this? This is one issue that goes to the credibility of Dr. Sha Kirkpatrick. I know you’ve spoken about this previously, but I want to get it definitively on the record here from you for reality check. In April 2018, your Skinw Walker Ranch team was asked to give evidence to the Senate Intelligence Committee and also to the Senate Armed Services Committee. Can I confirm Dr.
Sha Kirkpatrick was indeed at the head of the table for that intel meeting, wasn’t he?
Absolutely. In fact, there’s photographic evidence that I was forced to post when my integrity was being called into question. and Dr.
Kirkpatrick was denying any any previous interest or involvement uh in these topics and I was being called out as as as being dishonest in my account of a 2018 briefing, the one that you’ve just referenced, and the fact that I flew my team for a confidential briefing uh to provide an overview involving video evidence and hard data relative to the reality of the ongoing investigation and the the documentary evidence at Skinwalker Ranch. And and during that meeting, I mean, the gentleman who sat right across from me, right there at the head of the table, was Dr. Sean Kirkpatre. And so I you can imagine my surprise when many years later he uh denies that he ever had any interest in these topics before being engaged to lead the Arrow effort.
and uh and went so far as to say he’d never met me or attended any such briefing when in fact this briefing was organized well in advance, weeks in advance, and involved me at great cost and expense flying my team and advisers from all over the country to converge on Washington DC to provide I think an unprecedented uh report uh involving data and evidence uh gathered since my acquisition of Skinwalker Ranch in April of 2016. And I I always intended to keep it confidential. Uh I was never going to to really go into a lot of detail relative to the the briefing and who was involved, but ultimately was was compelled to confirm uh that it was real, that that it was serious. And there really is a serious uh interest from a national security standpoint in in what is happening at Skinwalker Ranch. I mean, all roads appear to lead to Skinwalker Ranch when it comes to these topics, whether people admit it or not. I mean, it it is without question a center of gravity and has been a living laboratory since 1996 when my predecessor, Robert Bigalow, locked it down and then ultimately ended up engaging with the United States government and and uh the ranch became the center of a black budget Pentagon funded program for a number of years.
Now, I just wanted to double check one thing with you because this is quite important. I understand that when uh M Dr. Kirk Patrick gave a statement to a a video editor from the New York Post. Uh he claimed that the meeting that he attended was not in fact specifically a briefing to do with Skinw Walker Ranch or or indeed to do with anomalous phenomena at that location. Can I be very very clear? You went there with the specific intent and understanding that this was a specific briefing where you were informing the intelligence committee specifically about the anomalous phenomena that you and your team have detected at Skinwalker Ranch.
Yeah. It was exclusively focused on Skinwalker Ranch. There was not one slide of that PowerPoint presentation that involved anything but Skinwalker Ranch. That was 100% the purpose, the title of the briefing and nature of a very focused discussion that spanned two and a half hours where I sat across from Dr. Kurt Patrick H along with my team and provided a a very current and unprecedented report with data backing up the the reality that we had been able to not only capture unidentified flying objects or UAP on many occasions above the property, but we’d also carefully documented the electromagnetic anomalies, the equipment malfunctions, acute medical episodes that had occurred under my stewardship, unfortunately, and the the high strangeness and the reality of the high strangess that that defies any conventional or prosaic explanation.
Can I ask you this? I I’m fascinated that the Pentagon sent along Dr. Sha Kirk Patrick in particular because the information I’ve had for a long time is that Dr. Kirk Patrick is a lot more involved in the legacy program than he’s ever cared to admit and that he’s had a long-standing interest in the UAP phenomenon. This is why I’m banging this nail very very hard. Well, if you but but but he told the New York Post that, you know, aside from going to a movie like Close Encounters or, you know, the the very passive interest u in pop culture, he claimed to the New York Post that he had no prior interest in these topics or involvement. Yet, what is he do? He’s he’s actually a very prominent figure in a very confidential briefing specifically regarding what is without question the most infamous scientifically studied paranormal hotspot on the planet. You don’t get amnesia all of a sudden. You don’t forget someone flying in a a key business figure flying in secretly with his team to provide a briefing for hours. It just, you know, the the disinformation campaign and the attempt to discredit these topics and those like myself who’ve put their their reputations and their their money, their resources on the line in service to getting the answers and bringing to the public’s attention the reality of these things. I I am so surprised at the level of uh disinformation and the level of uh discrediting that goes on and you see it actively with the Wall Street Journal.
why the Wall Street Journal would do such a terrible job and have literally no journalistic integrity would would fail to do any factchecking or any true due diligence relative to the people that they are citing that they are applauding and using as the as the core foundation and credibility their article. It just it’s disappointing Ross to to be really honest with you. It’s it it underscores the sad state of journalism today and how manipulated and corrupt our mainstream media has become.
If the Wall Street Journal had contacted you, Brendan Fugal, what would you have told them about the credibility of Dr.
Shan Kirkpatrick, the former Arrow boss?
I would have simply shared with them the truth. I would have stated the facts and let them make their own conclusions and uh and and proceed to to publish their own hopefully, you know, uh intelligent assessment of of these topics and and also be able to to address his leadership and what what has come out of that. The reason why I’ve been asking you about all of this and setting this preamble before we go into Skinwalker Ranch is because of the next question I’m going to ask you, which is I understand the intelligence committee of the Senate took your Skinwalker Ranch evidence extremely seriously that they are engaged very very intensely in investigating these claims of anomalous phenomena.
Is that the impression you obtained from the committee?
Absolutely. It was a sobering meeting on both sides of the table. Uh these are serious topics. This isn’t for the faint of heart. The implications relative to the reality of the phenomena in this data being brought forward, it’s it’s serious. And what impressed me when we flew out to give this briefing was the the professionalism, the caliber of the individuals that sat across from me, including Dr.
Kirkpatrick.
And I uh I appreciated the tone of that meeting and the fact that there were very thoughtful questions, very thoughtful inquiries that came out of our presentation. Most notably, I mean, the the acute medical episodes that had been documented on the property, the the the continued incidents of UFO activity and and multiple witnesses of craft of unknown origin uh maneuvering in ways that defy our current understanding of propulsion physics.
I I I was very impressed at how serious these topics were being taken and that I think that there are some very good people that are trying to get the answers that are that are sincerely concerned about our national security and uh and protecting the public and and helping to provide hopefully if if not the answers at least provide the protective structure to to uh I think uh help shield us from what may be consequences.
So, let’s go to your latest series. And I’ve I’ve watched all four, I think, of the the latest series. And I just want to congratulate you because one of the criticisms that’s often thrown your way at Skinwalker Ranch, and you and I have discussed this before, is that it’s it’s done in a very formulaic media way. You know, you’ve got a constructed TV show and and a lot of the criticism is there’s no peer-reviewed science behind what you’re doing. One of the things that strikes me about this year’s episodes is you’re getting Travis in particular to set out a lot more the nature of the experiment that you’re about to do. And in the current series, there’s there’s two themes you’re running. One is what the heck is it? Or actually, as Travis says, what the hell is under that matter? You know, I I I I love his accent and I I think he’s a brilliant performer and and also a fantastic scientist, but I I’m really impressed by the fact that you are engaging in a very rigorous scientific way in this new series. Is that a deliberate change?
No, we we’ve always utilized the scientific method since I acquired the property. When I first acquired the property, I as you’re aware, I was a skeptic. I didn’t believe that there was anything credible, you know, behind the claims of high strangeness of UFOs and other activity on this property. And I truly believed that if I were to bring in my own team of scientists and experts that we would ultimately confirm that there’s nothing going on here of of any interest uh that would validate the the very um unusual and uh stunning claims that have been made over many years. Uh, and I was just as surprised or more surprised than anyone to find that there was absolute reality behind the claims that had taken place. not only UFOs, but now you know you know after hearing decades of stories of large wolflike uh entities on the property that were impervious to you know to to gunshots and you know all of the all of the anecdotal accounts. Now to have actual physical evidence and data proving that there is probably some very re real evidence and reality behind the uh the accounts that have been going on for a very long time.
I I I just want to come to that actually. I mean I was going to come to that a bit later but let’s go to that. I mean you find a carcass in a creek and it looks like some kind of dead canine.
The jaw and teeth match those perfectly of a juvenile so-called dire wolf. Now the direwolf is an extinct species of canine that was native to the Americas in the late placine and early holysine epochs somewhere. I was looking up this this last night somewhere between 125,000 and 25,000 BC. So whatever whatever this creature is, um it it’s a long time dead. And you do a test on this creature and the DNA test comes back that it’s about 11% uh modern wolf, but the rest of the DNA is indicative of a type of wolf that has never been seen before.
Yeah, it it’s a mystery. And and th this is a decomposing carcass whose jaw whose teeth are a an exact match to an extinct direwolf. And to have a biologist on site that happens to have access to the skeletal material to to have access to the biological material of an extinct direwolf to actually compare side by side and conduct some rigorous experiments. As you probably recall, um, last year there were experiments conducted relative to the what kind of force and strength it would take to pierce through the rib cage of some of the the animal carcasses that that we found mysteriously strown across the ranch and not knowing really who is the predator. I mean, we we’ve known that there’s there is predator activity on this property uh for a very long time, but even with 50 surveillance cameras, thermographic imaging, fleer camera systems, drone surveys, we had yet to ever capture on camera anything that would fit the description of or match up with the type of predator that would have that kind of uh ability to take down the the animal wildlife on the property and to to see not only this material covered from Dry Gulch Creek, which by the way had never been investigated before. We’re investigating regions of Skinwalker Ranch that have never been thoroughly investigated or explored. and to find this carcass and to have a direct match um with the teeth and the jawbone from an extinct direwolf species and then to have its material tested, the DNA tested and the majority of it be really a mystery and and not really assignable to any any known sample. It’s it’s uh it’s it’s it it deepens the mystery that much more. So, is there any consideration being given, I I hope there is, to getting the evidence that you’ve gathered of this mysterious wolf species, whatever it is, which indicates that perhaps it’s of dire wolf origin.
Is there any consideration being given to perhaps getting that into an archaeology or a forensic archaeology journal so that it can be peer-reviewed and tested and independently judged?
Yeah. Yes. And we’ve been gathering the data. Uh we’ve also we our biologists immediately consulted with officials with the state with wildlife and as you probably remember Ben Woodruff who made inquiry relative to the wolf population was told that there’s there shouldn’t be any wolves out in this area. In fact in northeastern Utah in the basin they had no no record of any uh any existing uh popular population or any account. And this is not only out of place but out of time.
So let that sink in.
I I know. And this is the thing about your series. I’ve I I’ve watched it in previous years. And what I meant earlier, by the way, was that I think you’re being much more overt in demonstrating the scientific method that you’re using. I don’t doubt that you’ve been using the scientific method. Just to clarify, I think what I’m seeing more is Travis particularly is explaining more of what you’re going to do and how you’re going to set out to explain what you’re investigating.
Well, we want it to be clear. We want to show clearly the methodology behind the experiments and the research activities.
Yeah.
In order to get the answers. And I think one thing that is a hallmark of our investigation since the beginning is is my imperative that we bring in third-party credentialed subject matter experts. I mean to have Pete Kelsey who is one of the most respected uh survey professionals in the world uh when it comes to uh LAR surveys and and using some of the latest technology to Jim Royston CEO of Omnitech former executive director of the International Space Station National Laboratory to have him on the ranch for months engaged with the team with you know Sam uh Derzo who is also a a credentialed scientist and a host of others even Ben Woodruff who has a long history of studying biology and the animal life in Utah and beyond and being able to draw from that collective expertise and have the experts and I’m not even getting into the drilling experts. You know, the people who we’ve brought out are the finest when it comes to mining and drilling. And to have them scratching their heads, baffled, and and at every turn, they say that we they they have never experienced the challenges on any other drill site that they have experienced consistently and persistently at Skinwalker Ranch.
So, let’s go through this. I I I want to get I want to get to the detail of this because let’s talk about what Pete’s LAR work has been doing because it is it’s great work. It’s good science, groundbreaking, good solid science. So, you’ve got last series you revealed that there’s something inside the ma the mea, a sort of a giant 400 ft blob and probably another blob beside it. and yeah, some some unknown material that seems to be um creating some challenges that seems again out of place.
And one of the things that you kind of just dropped into the latest series, and I hadn’t seen this earlier, I probably missed it, was that you recovered from inside the mesa when you were drilling a bore hole adjacent to this big object.
You found what looks like a piece of constructed manufactured ceramic in addition to metal. And this ceramic has clear cross-hatching in it that under the electron microscope is clearly not natural.
Yeah. It’s a manufactured material.
So think that we’re I just want to get this I just want to make this clear. So inside the mea, hundreds of feet inside a solid lump of sandstone rock, you’re drilling with a drill. And this is this is for the benefit of the audience that haven’t seen this show, and I really recommend people do go and see this.
You’ve recovered lumps of ceramic that are clearly manufactured.
Correct. And we’re talking again from 400 ft within the mesa. We have extracted material that is not naturally occurring that is manufactured in origin that as you’ve mentioned most recently has been identified as ceramic material with strange markings on it denoting its manufacturer.
And you I don’t want to give any spoilers but there are some other properties electromagnetic properties associated with the ceramic that is I believe highly unusual again out of place and out of time. And this is this has been recovered utilizing a team of experts, not only mining and drilling experts, but under the close watchful eye of a credentialed archaeologist, Chris Roberts. So, we’ve had Chris Roberts doing a detailed conducting a detailed archaeological study and survey carefully sifting through the material that has come out of this this exercise in order to, you know, identify whether anything unusual has has been extracted.
And we are presenting that to the general public. And and then of course you saw that, you know, we kicked off the season with this very material with it being an analyzed at Utah Valley University under a a very sophisticated scanning electron microscope with again independent scientists, independent third-party credentialed experts helping us analyze and observe what has been extracted and what has been found at Skinwalker Ranch.
Uh to have the largest institution in the state of Utah uh to be utilizing the the very sophisticated third-party independent scientific instrumentation and service to getting the answers and in fact getting answers that are very very interesting.
Uh we’re we’re seeing history. We’re seeing history made and we are potential potentially rewriting history relative to what may lie beneath the mesa and what is what is really going on at Skinwalker Ranch?
Are you getting academic science interested? I mean the the the thing that really strikes me is time and time again you have demonstrated on Skin and Walker Ranch things that present genuinely as authentic anomalies. One of the things that blew me away in the last series, and I noticed you’ve repreed this in the current series, is there is something in the air above what’s called the triangle at Skin Walker Ranch, which is a a highly active anomalous area known as the Triangle. You fired rockets into the air and the rocket apparently hit something. There’s no there’s nothing physically in the air. You’ve flown choppers and drones through the same spot, but at the point that you fire a rocket through the air, it’s obstructed by something. I mean, yeah. Or frozen or or you see rockets frozen in the air during an experiment or deflected or you see them completely deflected away from the area for no no known reason. Um there is definitely something going on and then you couple with that the GPS malfunctions. I mean we have seen and documented across a diversity of platforms the fact that GPS does not function properly at Skinwalker Ranch especially above the triangle. So, we’re talking instrumented rockets, drones, helicopters, uh, fixedwing aircraft, even balloons that have been deployed with instrumentation that do not behave normally, that actually malfunction and are arguably manipulated when they’re in this region of the ranch. Uh that’s concerning when you look at how much we rely as a people on GPS just for everything global logistics Ross and on Skinwalker Ranch it it just things don’t function properly in fact they’re outright manipulated.
It did occur to me one of the things that consistently comes up is and it’s always just before you’re about to do an experiment. So you might be for example about to put the drill back into the bore hole to remark the bore hole in the maser or you might be allowed about to launch a rocket or a drone above the triangle. What I’ve noticed in the current series is being detected by Travis and others is firstly you get a 1.2 ghahertz signal and then at times you’re also getting a 1.6 six GHz signal and it’s not it’s not you guys. It’s not the skinwalker Ranch people who are broadcasting those signals. Something is broadcasting signals at you in this area.
Is it is it possible cuz I noticed Travis has said a few times that the 1.6 is a known military communications signal between terrestrial Earth and satellites. I mean, is it possible somebody from the DIA is screwing with you? I mean, they’ve previously investigated Skinwalker Ranch. Is it possible that these signals are being sent by somebody in the government trying to cause mischief for you?
Unlikely because I don’t think that people in the government were creating mischief 50 years ago on Skinwalker Ranch or going back to the 80s or even predating, you know, a lot of the the more modern accounts. I mean, we we have law enforcement on record with the fact that there has been high strangeness.
Everything from bizarre cattle mutilations occurring on the property to UFO sightings going back to the 1930s.
Um, so to answer your question, would there is is there a potential um government or covert government effort that may be involved with the signal that appears mysteriously? right? When we are conducting some of the most sensitive critical experiments on Skinwalker Ranch, well, potentially one thing that we’ve seen borne out during our investigation is the fact that covert military uh helicopters and aircraft have appeared over the ranch simultaneous with some of our most bold experiments yet. I mean everything from a Blackhawk helicopter that descended in the midst of one particular experiment during a nofly advisory when there was a notice to airmen uh in place prohibiting any aircraft and and you take a Blackhawk helicopter that not only immediately appears and hovers low over the ranch in the midst of this, but they’re not transponding. They’re cloaking their identity. We’ve had numerous uh Army special ops helicopters unmarked and not transponding that have also uh been sweeping the property periodically.
We’ve even caught the National Science Foundation’s Gulfream 5 jet conducting very detailed, very um sophisticated surveys above the property that uh that for whatever reason uh must be of of great interest. Uh, so I is there is there a potential covert military um effort or presence involved in some way, shape or form with the with the signal that that not so coincidentally appears during some of our most important experiments potentially. We don’t know where it’s coming from. And that is that is one of the most disturbing aspects of this is that we don’t know really the the origin or the agenda associated with the 1.6 gigahertz signal. Who is behind it or what is behind it? It may be coming from within the mesa itself. It may be part of some type of defense system that may be involved with uh with whatever exotic uh material may be embedded within the mesa that is awakened or at least put on active alert and shows up in the form of our of our instruments during these experiments on a consistent basis.
So, we’ve talked about the mesa, the strange object yet to be determined uh inside the mesa. Let’s talk about the bubble, which is a large part of the current series. And um Pete’s great great LAR work and the work done by all of your scientists has shown that there is what used to be thinking of a dome.
It turns out in the current series to be a bubble and you’ve got Yeah, it’s sometime it’s a region. It’s a region over the ranch that does encompass the triangle but also ends up going out to the um to the homesteads to homestead 2 which has been a center of gravity for High Stranges and all the way to the south toward Dry Gulch Creek where of course we recovered the mysterious wolf carcass and uh and there seems to be a well there’s a there is a uh a persistent amount of data that has been collected that has mapped that region of the property under not only Pete Kelsey’s uh purview and expertise but also others. I mean having Omnitech involved and their instrumentation and drones. I mean, we have multifysics sensor devices positioned across the property, across Skinwalker Ranch right now that have been in place that are taking everything from magnetometer readings to seismic readings to to really other sensor uh approaches to studying the environment in the property. And what we have seen confirmed by our devices and the third party experts including Mr. Kelsey is it’s stunning. It’s stunning confirmation that there is something truly anomalous or unusual that is disrupting everything from aircraft instrumentation to the other scientific platforms.
Now I’m going to go a little bit woo here Brandon. I’m aware of claims from other parts of America that there are what are called interdimensional portals and I know from George Knaps and Colm Kellaher’s excellent book on Skinwalker that there’s previously been investigation at Skinwalker Ranch into what is believed might very well be some kind of interdimensional portal. Now, we know these things can exist according to modern quantum physics, but of course, their existence has never been definitively proven. Is it a possibility that what we’re talking about here at Skinw Walker Ranch is that creatures such as your dire wolf carcass are coming through some kind of portal and that the crypted creatures, the anomalous phenomena that you’re seeing at Skinwalker Ranch could potentially be explained by this being some kind of interdimensional portal. And just I just want to point to another thing that happens in your current series. You’ve got a rocket that’s been fired, I think, to um 2,000 ft. It’s on infrared and you’re following it as it’s coming down.
It’s on color infrared. It falls and it seems to disappear. It’s got a light on it and there’s a moment where it goes through an area which is adjacent to again the triangle and it momentarily disappears. So, the light is suppressed.
the object is not there and then it reappears again after it’s gone through that particular area.
I mean it I I’m going to ask the unaskable is it possible that what you’re looking at here is some kind of interdimensional portal.
I think what we’ve found is anything is possible. I mean, I I would have told you 10 years ago that there was no validity to the UFO phenomena. That if people only applied scientific rigor, discipline, and critical thinking to these topics, they would find that there’s nothing unusual that would um that would be found. And I I think now that we have data and we are taking a datadriven approach. We’re not driven by an inherited narrative, but by the data, you know, not anecdotal accounts, but by third-party experts utilizing state-of-the-art instrumentation.
What we are seeing with respect to space-time anomalies, electromagnetic anomalies, compasses spinning, GPS being manipulated, the presence of a portal or some type of interdimensional gateway or even highway on this property or above this property is not out of the question. You have to think what would be creating these kind of effects and and and one thing that also is a little bit uh concerning is the transient nature of it. Uh you know we’ve we’ve had numerous environmental tests conducted on Skinwalker Ranch.
We’ve had soil studies. We’ve had some of the the I think most respected experts when it comes to environmental testing trying to to study the property to see if there’s radioactive material, what is, you know, what is involved with this uh strange activity. And at every turn, I mean, you have people like Qualtech uh and others that are baffled that that come up with no explanation other than the fact that it’s real, that we’ve documented it. The data is real. It isn’t contrived. It hasn’t been fabricated. But finding out what what may be behind it. Is it is it a portal?
Skinwalker Ranch, a portal or gateway or interdimensional highway to other realms. I mean it the more we gather, the more evidence that we present to the public, I think those those theories seem to at least merit further consideration.
Of course they do. And look, I have to say one of the fun parts of the series is the watching the stupification and incredility on the faces of the scientists that you do bring in because they are genuinely stumped at times.
There’s there’s a great moment and I hope I’m not giving away too much in your current series, but there’s a great moment where at one stage a rocket is launched. It’s coming down in its chute.
We know there’s no wind, so there’s no crosswind that could possibly be hindering it. It should it should be falling, but it literally sits in midair for quite a long time before it finally starts moving. Something’s impeding it.
Yeah, it it appears that way. And to have so many witnesses, we have multiple camera positions, multiple views. We have all sorts of instrumentation deployed in service to studying the environment, to tracking everything that is happening with respect to the activity, not just with the experiment, but how the environment may be reacting to some of this experimental work, including the the instrumented rocketry.
And it’s it is baffling. I mean, you I I I I look at the uh the reaction of the professionals with lock precision who it I mean, they’re probably one of the foremost experts on instrumented rocketry in the United States. You look at Sky Elements um who has been involved with the drone experiments. I mean, these guys have two Guinness Book of World Record uh holdings. Um, and it’s, you know, to see these these individuals that uh that have been involved that have so much to lose, frankly, by putting their reputations and their equipment on the line and and them truthfully looking into the camera and and admitting that what they’re seeing is unexplainable is it’s sobering. It’s exciting. It’s true science discovery and action. And I I hope the public, the general public who are following our journey, following this investigation, realizes how historic this is. We have never in history seen an active frontier science investigation like this that has been more transparent, more engaged with the public, and more disciplined in its approach.
And uh I I agree with you on that point, Brandon, but I’ll be honest with you.
What I’m really shocked by is like for example, you reveal compelling evidence suggesting that you’ve got the jawbone and the teeth of the decaying carcass of a wolf that last existed at best 25,000 years before Christ. And for some perverse reason, it’s in a creek at Skinwalker Ranch. And the thing that really shocks me is as you watch that episode, it goes through the gate and you think, did they?
And it’s, by the way, it’s decomposing and it has maggots all over it and it it it was alive. It was recently alive. I mean, so where the hell where the hell did a dire wolf, if it is, obviously we can’t be we don’t know, but where did it come from?
Uh, hey, talk to any wildlife expert.
U and I think they they would have a hard time coming up with any any real explanation. It’s it is one of the great mysteries of Skinwalker Ranch and and thank goodness we have the data. When I bought the property, we had anecdotal accounts. We had a book by George Knap and Dr. Kellaher. We had community uh reports and accounts of activity. We had the NIDS, the the National Institute of Discovery Science. We had the BASS program um reports and and some of that uh material, but uh but as far as actually having hard evidence and data, I mean, people would scoff at me. I mean, I had people even my own family. I mean, I remember my own father uh who who was supportive and it was my greatest mentor. My dad when I acquired the property and and I I told him in confidence that I uh was conducting this research and paying for it and had employed these professionals. His response was, “Brandon, it sounds like a boondoggle to me. What a waste of time.” And you know, that just sounds like a bunch of nonsense. Giant wolves, uh, UFOs, uh, poltergeist like activity, compasses spinning. What are you talking about? I mean, really? I mean, he says, and and he he he would chuckle about it, and I I said, “Well, we’ll we’ll see. We’ll see what what ends up what ends up being either debunked or validated.” But what I don’t understand, Brandon, is why isn’t some of what you’re revealing genuine, scientifically mysterious anomalies proven methodically, independently with multiple lightars, drones, rockets, fires, you even use smoke to try and get the shape of what this bubble is?
Sure.
At what point does mainstream science, mainstream media start engaging?
Obviously, we’re giving you a a push along here on NewsNation, which we like to do, but I mean, I’m shocked that major national newspapers are not engaging more seriously. And frankly, I’m shocked that if the Wall Street Journal was looking for evidence of anomalous phenomena that it wasn’t trying to actively debunk. I’m just wondering where that’s gone and why isn’t there that coverage?
Because people can’t handle the truth. I think that the general public doesn’t want to be faced with the reality of things that could challenge their paradigm, that potentially challenge the security of our day-to-day existence, our 401k, be able to take the family to Disneyland periodically, you know, typical life experience. I think people, as much as they may be curious about these topics and they may find them entertaining.
I think being faced with the data, with actual evidence that there’s reality, I think is is understandably terrifying. And I think most people can’t handle the truth. And they want to be plugged right back into the matrix. If we’re living in a in a matrix in a simulated environment for you know as a as a wild theoretical example I think most people when faced with the reality that hey you you may be living in a in something like this I think I think the general public has proven and I would say scientists academics and others have proven that they anything that challenges the conventional paradigm ends up being either inciner generated or dismissed or discredited and discredited with a lack of integrity. I mean the Wall Street Journal uh articles recently just they they lack integrity. They lack any type of critical thinking or rigor going back and looking at the historical record.
Because anyone who does their due diligence and looks back on the historical record, not only in the United States, but also with other countries that have had programs that have had officials that have had actual credentialed officials go on record relative to their own military assets encountering the phenomena. I I I I think they would would have taken a much different turn with the article, but instead they’re celebrating a a a person in Dr. Sean Kirkpatre who has already been revealed to be a disinformation agent that has no problem denying that he ever attended any briefings or had any interest in these topics or was involved in any way in these topics previously. and even went so far to say that he’d never met me or, you know, had any any interest or knowledge. And I’m like, what? Uh I it it’s um it really underscores how complex these topics are and and the sociological implications and consequences as well. I want to give you a chance to respond also to another line that’s been directed to try and undermine your credibility and that of Skinwalker Ranch. the the line is that you’re a Mormon Church of Latter-day Saints and that because the Joseph Smith experience in the biblical teachings of Mormonism are essentially derived from a a set of golden tablets delivered by um forgive me I don’t know the name of the angel but you know essentially it’s almost like a UFO experience where Joseph Smith is given the tablets the golden tablets and it sparks the beginning of modern Mormonism is this for you part of underlining the significance of your own religious faith or is it something that contradicts your religious faith?
No, that’s a very good question and it’s a valid question. Um I to be completely transparent and honest I I have found it interesting that my faith that the you know Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints uh theology which I was raised with to believe that there are worlds without number that we’re not alone in the universe that we live in a divinely constructed intelligently designed reality that there that there is a purpose to life and that uh there’s an intelligent design behind all of this to see evidence borne out in this investigation of these things and and uh these topics I think not not dismissed but al but actually some to some degree validated is it’s interesting uh when I started this journey when I acquired the ranch I had gone through a years’s long faith crisis and and uh doubted and questioned everything. Not only did I have serious concerns and doubts relative to any paranormal claims, in fact, I thought it was all baloney based on and that was based on my own thorough research and even investing in scientific research relative to these topics. But I’d also uh studied religion, not only my own religious doctrine and history, faith history and tradition, but also world religions. And I was of the mind that that uh organized religion was most likely just a man-made construct, a a cherished cultural tradition much like Santa Claus.
And uh and I have to tell you, you know, my journey, you know, with using science and technology relative to studying the ranch and also going back and looking at my faith history and uh what I was raised in has only brought me back full circle. It’s it it has been an unexpected byproduct to a degree, but not connected. I will definitely state that the investigation at Skinwalker Ranch has never been mo motivated. Not for one second has it been motivated by some type of religious zeal or religious imperative. And quite the contrary, I would say that most of my team, they’re not practicing members of any faith to be quite candid. And uh you know, it’s not my story to tell. It’s not appropriate for me to speak on behalf of others. But I think if anyone did their due diligence on my team, an expanded team, they’d find that they’re really if if it’s actually the opposite. You have people that uh that have abandoned their faith tradition in many cases or don’t really ascribe to any specific religious theology that are involved with this investigation and going on record relative to the reality of what has been documented and what we’ve been bringing forward. But I I appreciate the question because I I do consider myself a person of faith. I love um I love my own faith, history, and doctrine. I’m thankful for that which I was taught and raised with.
I’d mentioned my father who was my greatest mentor and example, and he was a man of great faith, an incredible example. I I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ. Uh I I have faith that uh that there is a higher power that is well aware of all of us that loves each one of us and is in some way is well aware of us on a deeply personal level. Um, I don’t know how the physics behind that works, but I I believe that I have seen hard data and evidence that truly does confirm that we do live in a divinely constructed, intelligently designed reality and that we aren’t alone and that there is a plan and a purpose. None of this is a coincidence, Ross.
I’ll agree.
I don’t believe that there are any coincidences.
I’ll agree with you there. I certainly I find myself getting more spiritual as I get into this subject matter. I I don’t know whether it makes me religious, but it certainly makes me aware of a creative entity or other.
Yeah.
Can I take you finally to another area that you and I have discussed previously. I I know you’ve taken an interest in the metallic spheres that have been recorded all around the world.
I’ve had literally hundreds of people contact me about them. There’s a gentleman in Texas called Jim Maron who you and I both know. Um, are you interested in investigating the metallic spheres and if you are, what what are you able to tell me about what investigations you’re potentially doing?
Sure. I I’m interested. I’m intrigued.
You know, there have been certain theories put out there that there is there’s this sphere network that seems to attend UFO sightings uh that have been captured on camera. Um, I’m currently a skeptic, so I I have yet to see any hard data uh or scientific evidence underpinning, you know, a a uh you know, a belief that would would, I think, validate them as exotic. Um, the jury’s out. In other words, I I’m open-minded because after what I’ve seen and witnessed at Skinwalker Ranch, I have to be open to frankly anything. And uh I think we live in a very mysterious world. I think we’re just barely scratching the surface of understanding what is going on in our skies and even the nature of consciousness. Ross, when it comes to the the latest buzz about the these sphere objects, these spherical objects, I’m I’m intrigued. I would like to use scientific rigor and discipline and scientific instrumentation myself in order to study one or more of these objects that have supposedly been recovered. And um I’ll leave it at that. I’m not at liberty to go on record or state anything further other than I’m intrigued, very skeptical, but willing to devote the resources and personnel to either debunk, and I mean thoroughly debunk the claims or validate that there really is something exotic going on associated with these objects.
So, uh, stay tuned. I guess it’s probably the the the most appropriate answer that I can give you is uh I I’m intrigued and I’m looking forward to using scientific rigor and discipline and uh resources in order to potentially debunk or validate various claims associated with uh aerial unidentified aerial phenomena. The spheres being one of them. Well, Brendan Fugle, I think I for one would like to commend the fact that you as a businessman with resources is actually willing to spend the money and do the research on both the metallic spheres and what you’re uncovering at Skinwalker Ranch. So, I’d like to thank you very much for talking again to Reality Check and wish you the very best for the the rest of the Skinw Walker Ranch season. And I hope that what you’re revealing good solid science in this current season’s shows is picked up by mainstream science. Even if they do take a skeptical turn, it’s time what you’re revealing was taken seriously.
Well, we can hope, but frankly, I don’t care.
You know who wants the answers?
Yeah.
Me.
Good idea.
Whether whether mainstream media wants to pick up on it. I mean, it’d be nice because I think the public has a right to know. I feel like my stewardship, my responsibility is to bring these things to the public. There’s a reason why I have never taken a penny personally relative to this effort. And I’m never going to involve the government or other enterprises. I’m I’m going to keep this as a privately funded enterprise. And Ross, I I want to bring everything we learn to the public’s attention. Uh but am I driven by peer review? Am I driven by mainstream media acceptance? By proving it to anyone? No.
I’ve I’m devoting the resources and personnel and my own reputation being put on the line so I can get the answers. I’m simply willing to share all of my findings with the public and whether they accept it or not, that’s up to them. I don’t really care.
So Brandon, how’s that?
I I think that’s great. Before we go, of course there’s one entity that of course would be watching on with interest and as you’ve said they are, and that’s the military. That’s the intelligence community. We know the DIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency of the United States, funded the OSAP investigations, which began looking at Skinw Walker Ranch, and they did very methodical scientific research. Have you ever in your time sought access to the DIA’s findings on Skinwalker Ranch? It would save you a lot of time, wouldn’t it?
We we’ve made inquiry um and I would love to have the data from a collaborative standpoint, but to be quite honest with you, when I bought the ranch, it was a ramshackle mess. I I I ended up having to expand the power infrastructure, the fiber optic infrastructure, and making major improvements. There was no sophisticated scientific platform in place or any infrastructure that would support an investigation of this time. And no disrespect to my predecessors, but no one has spent the money, the resource or devoted the personnel or instrumentation that we have relative to these topics.
So again, no offense to what happened during OAP, but I think that we are, how do I say this? I I think that what we are documenting is giant leaps beyond what came before because we simply have access to better resources.
Well, Brandon Fugal, I sincerely hope you’re making the spooks at DIA very nervous about what you find. Thank you once again for joining Reality Check.
Thank you so much. The truth is out there, my friend.
Thank you. looking looking forward to bringing it to everyone.
And before we go, please don’t forget we do our weekly question and answer and we need your questions. So, please send your questions in by email to reality check atnewsnationow.com.
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