Skinwalker Ranch Technologist Reveals a Mind-Blowing Theory

What I’m about to say is nuts. What if time doesn’t behave normally on the ranch?
That is, what if it’s stretched or compressed or both? That ticks a lot of boxes in terms of crazy stuff that I have seen with my gear over the years.
>> Oh, that can’t be aircraft. There actually is a large unidentified object circling the earth. An incredible scen.
>> Actually, we are very curious to know where it is you come from.
>> On Skinwalker Ranch, there’s probably no one that has a more unique view of what’s going on in the sky, underground, and all around. And that would be Pete Kelsey who joins us today. Welcome Pete.
>> Thanks James. Good to see you.
>> Good to see you too. So did Skinwalker Ranch find you or did you find Skinwalker Ranch?
I actually got the call, pardon me, I got the call from Prometheus, the production company, but originally it was the Oak Island um guys from Prometheus and we had a call and uh I guess I didn’t have a good day or wasn’t a good fit for that and they said, you know, now that we know what you do and how you do it, have you ever heard of Skinwalker Ranch? And to my embarrassment, I said, “No, I haven’t.” >> You hadn’t heard of the ranch before?
>> Never. No. No. Um, in fact, um, once, you know, once they told me about it and what was going on, you know, in all honesty, I was full-blown eye rolling skeptic. I thought, “Oh my god, I’m I’ll be out of there in 24 hours.” you know, they’ll say, “Eh, this isn’t a good fit. You’re just not for us.” Or something like that. And uh six years later, still there. So you Yeah, it’s been six years for you. So, >> when you show up at the ranch, like I’m just picturing you coming with your equipment and your thermos and your lunchbox and uh were you um what was the first thing that happened that made that registered with you that there may be something to this?
>> Let’s see. The very first thing um I had a large rather expensive drone up in the air. Eric and I were uh flying a photogometry mission.
Um we were set up in the driveway.
Um, the drone was in the air, you know, and I’m flying and I’m, you know, legally I have to keep my eyes on the drone. So, I’m watching the bird and there’s this and it’s broad daylight and there’s this bright light in the sky to the west and I’m sure we’ll talk a lot about this, but I my first thought was look it’s got to be the sun glinting off the windscreen of a commercial aircraft, you know, something like that.
but it wasn’t moving. Um, and hey, Eric, do you see that? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He writes it down, you know, time of day, where we are, all that stuff. And, uh, it it remained for a while and and then um I lost control of my drone.
Um, so it was up flying a fully autonomous mission. You know, this this sort of lawnmower pattern and um it was time to bring it back to do a battery swap. So I try to take over and I can’t.
And that’s not good.
This is a really expensive ass asset up there and I’m trying to figure things out and and it will not respond to anything I’m doing.
Um, it goes into an orbit and until the batteries run dry and then crashes >> and uh that was not a good day. a lot of a lot of lot of bad language. But then it it it kept well the next sort of chapter of the story was the data was actually intact on the drone.
>> So I processed the data and there is this the ranch is essentially flat with the exception of the mesa, right?
and you know the driveway there to the command center you know heading out west you know with the exception that Mesa is flat well in this model is about a 30° bend in the data and to this day and this is 6 years ago I still can’t explain it I neither can the folks I work with who make the software where who’ve been doing photoggramometry longer than I have, you know, nobody’s got a a good answer for it. The the closest um explanation which remains top of mind for me now 6 years later is GPS. Um, and the reason why is that every photograph, and there are thousands of them that the drone takes when it’s in the air, every photograph is geo tagged. That just means the lat long elevation is tagged in each photo.
That’s how they know where they are to stitch themselves together into a into a a model.
And that made sense to me. I mean, we didn’t that conversation didn’t come up for a few weeks, but that actually made sense. It’s like, okay, you know, at that bend, you know, where where the model is level, where the topography actually looks like it does, everything’s cool. But at that bend, I wonder if it could be that something went screwy with GPS as it was geo tagging those images during the flight.
But the drone becoming unresponsive, no idea. Um, it was just really frustrating, really expensive, but frankly, it set the hook for me. Um, it it it led to look, I I need I need some answers. I need to understand what’s going on here. Um, because nobody nobody has an answer. So me being stubborn um um wow sorry long story but here we are 6 years later and and still frankly chasing you know GPS remains as I said top of mind for Eric myself Travis all the guys you know um that’s always like what about GPS so >> no I appreciate that and I I get it it It happened. How long after you arrived at the ranch did that incident happen?
>> Oh, that was day one.
>> Okay. So, you came in rolling your eyes and you left going, “Well, my drones crashed. That’s expensive.” But there’s something to this.
>> Yeah. And you know, a bright light, which you know, today, having seen more of these things, um, you know, that would fall into the orb sort of >> Yeah. narrative. Um, I can’t explain what that was. You know, if that was an aircraft, you know, it should have been moving unless, you know, what are the odds it’s coming straight at me. I mean, but you would have been able to you I would have been we would have been able to detect motion if it was something like that as well.
So the whole thing was just like I need I need to I need to get my head around this because I’ve journey from skeptic to okay that was crazy to now to needing answers like millions of people now who you know who watch the show. We all want the same thing which is just that which you know what’s going on here to lately frankly I’ve become kind of pissed off like >> how so >> it because it’s so frustrating right um these guys are really smart they’re committed um a lot of thought goes into the experiments Um uh and it seems like, you know, we’ll come up with something, you know, a really good idea. Well, let’s try X, Y, or Z. Hey, that’s great.
Um, yeah, let’s try it and we’ll do it.
Something strange happens, but it leads to more questions rather than answers.
>> Sure. And it oh gosh it it it can really really try my patience and the other guys too. Um and it’s why for for many years now um I’ve told other people um the third party expert crowd like I am check your check your ego at the gate cuz this place is going to humble you. I can pretty much guarantee you that and I’ve watched it happen, >> you know, a couple of times with other folks.
>> Um, so with your technology, uh, that you specialize in, it’s, uh, without a dissertation, LAR, ground penetrating radar, uh, drones.
What can you describe a little bit about each as far as what they do and then associated with it? What what are some of the anomalies that seem to keep coming up with each of those?
>> Sure. Um so LAR is laser based. That’s the L in LAR.
Um the laser is infrared that you can’t see.
Um, so when any of the LAR scanners are running and there’s we use there’s a lot of different kinds of LAR. So we’re using drone based LAR, terrestrial laser scanning, but that’s LAR.
Uh, we use SLAM scanner a lot. Slam is just LAR anyway. It’s just at hundreds of thousands to millions of times per second, it’s sending out laser beams and anything the laser interacts with, touches, if you will.
Um, we get a point and that point gets an XYZ coordinate. It all happens at the speed of light. It’s really cool.
um in more in the drone base ladder well actually in all three now there’s a GPS component as well so the XYZ point that’s generated is tied to the ground which is really helpful but it’s so in terms of what’s gone what we’ve seen with that technology they’re known as returns these points that are collected millions of times per second. We’ve seen returns two times, you know, way out there in the sky, you know, 2x or more beyond the range of the scanner.
How does that happen? It’s not possible.
It’s it’s it’s physics, right? And oh, by the way, Travis Taylor, who is an optical physicist, and Eric Bart, who is a physicist, you know, are all just going, “That doesn’t make any sense at all.” And that’s happened a lot.
Um the other truly strange returns are underground.
>> Yeah.
>> And that’s impossible because it’s light. A laser can’t see through dirt and bedrock and it’s just not possible.
So that remains enigmatic. Um, photoggramometry we talked a little bit about that’s just a series of pictures can be stitched together into a beautiful 3D model that can be done from the a drone, from the ground, from me with my iPhone. I mean, anything, any camera. Um, and we talked about, you know, the bend and the topography. I think the one that people probably know the best is the spire of data we got in the Eastfield Canyon some years back that remains a total mystery and we’ve tried to repeat it. I mean like Caleb and I have gone out there um I’ve been out there by myself, same gear, same flight plan, same everything and trying to make that happen again to try to figure out what’s going on. and it we haven’t been able to um what else we’ve used it’s called multi-spectral imagery you might hear me see say MSI just multisspectral >> that is a camera that does standard red green and blue but also does two bands of infrared um um it’s used typically in agriculture and it measures levels of chlor chlorophyll and green plants. So, it can tell you how your crops are doing, say if you’re a farmer. Um, it’s very cool.
Um, but it turns out that it’s an incredible tool for archaeology because it can show you where people have been digging.
>> The plants will refract light differently in soil that’s been disturbed versus soil that hasn’t been. So, um, we’ve God, there was I think it’s I think it’s referred to as the five lines. There was an episode we did about that. You’ll see more with multisspectral coming up cuz now we have I know you’ve spoken with Chris.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, oh my god, we finally have an archaeologist.
Um, which is so cool because like I said, it dubtales really nicely with what I know how to do. Um, you mentioned GPR. Um, that’s, uh, my good buddy Yan. You know, Yan’s been on the show a couple times. Uh, he’s, you know, world class GPR expert, geoysicist, PhD, and just a great guy. Um GPR uses radar which is radio to look underground and oh my gosh the the return G found remain enigmatic as well. There are masses. I think the first one was in the road by homestead 2. I hope I have that right. Um, and then the one in the mesa, you know, which the guys have been chasing for a couple years now. It’s uh really really interesting. And again, and is actually a great example of what I was talking about a few minutes ago, watching somebody come to the ranch and watch the guys explain to them, well, this is Skinwalker Ranch. Have you ever heard of it? No. Well, here’s what goes on. And you watch I I will never forget watching Yan go through what I went through which is I I’ll be out here in 24 hours just the eye rolling skeptic there’s this is this has to be nonsense and I it we filmed it but it never aired. I remember saying to him with the cameras rolling, it’s like, we’re going to have this conversation in a couple of days and let’s see what’s changed. And wow.
So Yan’s gone through that. Um he’s been back a bunch of times. So that’s so between let’s say between Yan and I um anything above ground anything below ground anything airborne you know we’ve used drones we’ve used the helicopter um and what’s I can’t give too much away but the connective what connects say Yan’s data and mine together is GPS.
So we can actually integrate the two data sets into a single model. So then you can see above below it’s it’s we’re really excited about that. Um, and to be able to bring that to the audience and you know it’s a whole new sort of impossible look at Skinwalker Ranch because you know you can orbit the data and wow now we’re underground and well now we’re you know 1,000 ft in the air.
It’s it’s it’s and of course Eric is managing all this. you know, he is the keeper of the keys in terms of all of this data and you know what he how he is making sense of this data is absolutely paramount.
So, you know, guys like Yan and I are like, gosh, what are we going to do next? You know, uh they call it kicking the hornets’s nest.
Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> What’s the next kick? you know, um, so in my mind I I see like your roundt discussions afterwards and and what we hear as a part of that. What we don’t hear is you, Yan, Eric, uh, a whole litany of other people that continue to turn return to the ranch that have probably entered the same way where they’re like, “All right, we’re let’s play along.” And then their equipment fails in ways that it never had failed before. they get returns are returns that they’ve never seen anywhere else before and it’s >> it’s basically impossible but they’re saying well it just happened so it is possible how do we make sense of it I’m just picturing when the cameras aren’t rolling and through year you’re in year out the conversations you yan Eric the conversations you have with each other um is there is there any consensus between everybody as to and this is probably an individual question. I’ll ask you first. What do you think the possibilities are that we’re you’re dealing with?
>> Yeah, that’s wow. I I wish I knew. So my answer purely, you know, theoretical um does it carry some confirmation bias? Yes. you know, are where I can speak for the rest of the guys is are we all aware of that, you know, being at play um confirmation bias, you know, whatever it is, you know, we desperately try to f follow the scientific method. I I speaking for myself, >> I won’t speak for anybody else. If that wasn’t the MMO there, I wouldn’t be there cuz I am a nononsense kind of guy.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, so my what what keeps me up at night, right, I’ve already mentioned which well, no I haven’t. Um, it’s GPS.
Well, what makes GPS work? I remember a land surveyor years years and years ago early in my career telling me this. It’s like, Pete, you know what makes GPS work is a clock is the measurement of time. It’s the time from your phone, your car, your airplane, whatever your GPS receiver is to the satellites and back. And you need to have at least three, you know, satellites triangulation to get a good fix on where you are.
And I that is so time and this is this is it it’s it’s even hard for me to bring this up because it is so out there. It is so beyond you know our current understanding of physics and that I can say that as a non-physicist. I mean what I’m about to say is nuts. But what if Okay, so what if time doesn’t behave normally on the ranch?
That is, what if it’s stretched or compressed or both?
That ticks a lot of boxes in terms of crazy stuff that I have seen with my gear over the years. It it ticks it it it is an explanation that fits well enough that you have to go wow okay beware confirmation bias keep the science whole there are a lot of there are millions of people now you know paying attention to this this has to be credible etc etc but wow it’s that would explain returns 2x beyond the range of my scanners Right.
>> Yeah.
>> Time because it meant the time the speed of light of the laser beam going out and coming back. Well, if time was stretched even and at the speed of light, we’re talking milliseconds, that could explain why there are returns way out there that, you know, shouldn’t be there. And the same with underground.
>> Yeah.
>> Um why do batteries die in some instances? you know, you’re at 100%, 90 seconds later you’re at zero. H time that sort of ticks that. Okay, that’s a good fit. Um, you know, now, um, what else am I forgetting? Uh, my very first, you know, drone instant incident I had there, the bend in the data GPS. What if time was off and it pushed, you know, the location of those photos somewhere where they actually weren’t? It It’s So, I’ll leave I’ll take a breath. It’s That is my I’ve described it as my white whale.
That’s That’s Moby Dick to me. I I’ve got to get my head around that. And it’s you can imagine some of the reactions that you know I’ve had to that when I’m talking with the manufacturers who make the drones I use or the software for the post-processing. They’re like man we got to have you drug tested or something and I’m like you know come to the ranch or I’ll show you the data you know I’m not you can’t make this up. The guys love to say that. You know, if we were going to make something up, it wouldn’t be this.
I mean, who you can’t fake the data results that I’ve got, that um Yan has got, and let’s even throw in Chris. I mean, Chris has he’s just found some stuff that, you know, wow, how, you know, how do you pull a nickel from 1964 out of a messa which is covered with, you know, tens if not hundreds of millions of years of geology. It’s just what? So, >> no, that I actually love that um perspective because I think there was one show where they actually showed a like there was a difference in one of the instruments or the clock or something by maybe a sec, right? And that was like a tangible peak at the possibility that maybe we’re dealing with some form of time manipulation, which given given everything that’s been claimed, given everything that’s been even seen by people like that, is it really that far-fetched? Because it’s got to be something. And like you said, it would explain a lot more than it wouldn’t explain if that was true.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I’ll even here I go. Okay.
>> Let it rip.
>> Oh my god. When you know the guys pulled that corpse out of the creek and then uh you know Ben does his biology stuff and hey guys, this is a direwolf that’s been extinct for 14,000 years.
What?
what right? Um and you you know you the the debunkers start circling right and yeah take a lot of abuse but >> science is science. Um but anyway there’s a nice fit if there’s some kind of a time anomaly thing going on for that. Right.
>> Right.
Um the other one um I’m remembering is we use uh the helicopter a lot >> well as much as time and budget will allow. Um you know that’s FAA certified you know instrumentation has to be inspected all the time. This is commercial piloted aircraft and it’s aired in the show in in more than once. I think, hey, the helicopter thinks it’s 6 milesi from where we really are.
That’s GPS.
But frankly for me, because I spend my, you know, I’m a FAA certified drone pilot, you know, I have to understand air traffic control and aeronautical charts and safety and da da da da.
Commercial aircraft not knowing where it is.
That is dangerous. I mean, really dangerous. Um, so anyway, and the list goes on and on and on. So my that’s my white whale. I’m I’m stuck on or anyway that that’s always like right here in my ear. It’s like what about time? What about time? Let’s you know >> keep an eye on that. What I didn’t know and you explained was how GPS is contingent is based on time. And then now I can see and probably some of the viewers too that aren’t technical when we watch the shows and the GPS readings are underground. That’s impossible. All these there’s missing chunks of GPS data on a straight flight path.
And so when you say GPS is one of the keys and you guys are going to when the next season comes out, you’ll be, you know, more to be revealed and how you’re overlapping that with some of Yan stuff.
It makes sense to me now. I I know what to look for. I guess it’s a good indicator of what to look for. So, I appreciate that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It’s uh boy is it compelling, right? Um so that and and that sort of feeds that fire in me I was talking about a little a little while ago. you know, I’ve gone from skeptic to um gosh, frustrated, you know, to pissed off to, you know, now now it’s almost like obsession. It’s like because because no one can give me a good answer.
>> Yeah.
>> Now it’s become okay, I I need an answer. This is this is almost sort of visceral.
Um, and you know, how lucky am I that you know, for the for the most part, either through the show itself or through the the insider program, I mean, you know, Brandon just insists that we’re going to expose as much of this as we can. And, you know, that makes me extraordinarily lucky cuz what if this was some black, you know, government thing and, you know, we’re all like can’t talk about anything, you know.
>> So, it’s it’s, you know, the kimono is open. It’s like, you know, come with us if you dare. It’s some of it is going to really mess with your mind, your soul, you know, whatever. It’s it it’s frustrating. It’s fascinating.
Um, and yeah, a bit obsessive. It’s it’s amazing. Um, so I’m going to pivot a little bit here. Like we’ve talked about >> kind of your skill set and the technology you bring to the table and and all of this crazy anomalous uh results you’ve gotten from your technology and then even the theory of maybe what’s causing these results.
Aside, set technology aside, you’ve been out there now six years.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. In those six years without the technology piece, what else have you experienced just being around the ranch and maybe even off the ranch? Because I’ve talked to some people that were on the ranch and experienced some things they hadn’t before off the ranch. Any nontechnical related phenomenon that you’ve experienced on the ranch or off the ranch?
>> Um, yeah, I think they call that the hitchhiker effect. Um it’s the short answer is no. Um nothing nothing odd has happened to me off the ranch which half of me is thank you. You know I I don’t need that in my life. But there’s another part of me that’s like that’s sort of frustrated by that. It’s like, well, what about me?
It’s funny because I’ve actually been out of We’ve done a lot of offseason work, you know, when we’re not filming.
You know, Brandon’s great about that.
He’s like, “No, the work goes on regardless of the show.” And, you know, I’ve been out there by myself >> and screaming at no one, you know, saying, “I’m right here. If you want to have a conversation, you want to interact, here I am.” Um, no response, which is frustrating. Um, the only the thing that comes to mind, um, I think this aired last year, you know, we were doing a helicopter experiment and wow, you know, this bright light went right by me cuz I’m out on the skid or actually no, I was sitting on the deck. My feet were on the skid and you know I’m looking straight out the door. the doors open and we’re eastbound and the mace is going by and um you know I’ve got my scanner running and this bright light I don’t know grapefruit softball size went right past me and you know I’m on the cons I’m like camera did you did you just see what I just saw and I’m pretty sure he did um because I was what in the world is that? Um, and you know, no idea. And of course, that’s happened before, but that, you know, that one was mine, if you will, right? I saw it with my Mark1 eyeballs and wow, that was that.
So, that and it’s not in the data, no technology. It’s just something I saw.
there was you know I can’t explain and love really like to know what it is and what’s going on and why there etc etc but that’s that’s the one that comes to mind it also makes me think uh something that I think everyone again I don’t want to speak for everyone I’ll speak for myself occurred to me a a couple months ago that part of this experience is what are you going to do? How will you react? What what are you going to do when you see something that you cannot explain?
And it’s a really interesting for me anyway sort of train of thought to just sort of I think about that and you know then when it happens um it’s a really it’s can be really challenging right because you know I think if there was a shrink you know here with us they’d say well you know there’s there’s the divine there’s scientific there’s, you know, whatever. There’s there’s some obvious places to go, but keeping it more sort of a general, it’s like I I’d be willing to bet that for a lot of us, you know, again, only speaking for myself, it’s like, what are you going to do when you’re confronted with something like that, whether it’s data I can’t explain or an orb flying by me, what are you going to do? Right? And that how or how will you react? Maybe that’s a better way to put it. Um, and that’s there’s something great about that too.
You know, it can be frustrating. I can get really pissed, but at the end of the day, it’s extremely humbling.
And that comes back to that comment I’ve been telling people a long time. It’s like check your ego at the gate cuz this place is going to humble you.
>> It’s going to happen.
>> You know, um when I was talking to Chris Roberts, your archaeologist, he made a comment that kind of ties into what we’re talking about.
>> And he said, you know, and it was his observation, right? only speaking for himself. But what he what he felt was people that come out there, whether it’s um film crew, whether it’s technologists like yourself, an archaeologist, security. Um he said the implication to him is each of us are going to be shown what we’re going to be shown. And maybe it’s it’s almost based off of Chris is an archaeologist. So he gets shown a nickel in the mea like how how can it be in there? How can ceramic that can reconstitute and disintegrate and reconstitute on its own be in the mesa and buried in the mesa? How can metal that doesn’t fit a box of any metals that have been discovered be pulled out of there? And that’s what he’s shown. And also he did expand on some of the other uh just the depth of history with the archaeology there that people are gravitating to this site and there’s no reason for them to gravitate there. It’s not like uh uh by this massive just over history. There’s no reason people should keep coming there, but they do. Or as he said in maybe your case, they see things in the sky when they’re measuring the sky or underground. That’s what they see. Other people walk around the homesteads and maybe see an entity or entities or shadow figures or have this visceral reaction. And Caleb, I said, “Well, you’re kind of the middle ground here. You’re the everyman in a way with a function there, but you’re not an archaeologist. You’re not a technologist.” He described, you know, him and Travis having this crazy at night almost rectangular glowing thing when he put his gun on it and it takes off and uh him seeing a cloaked uh craft in the sky with the birds being warped when they went behind it like a funhouse mirror. So, I think >> there’s something to it, but like you said, what is it to it, right? Like what’s the rhyme or reason behind it?
Who knows? Um, >> and the other thing I was going to mention too is it came to mind when you were talking about GPS was not only on the ranch, but when you did Beyond Skinwalker Ranch, I think there was an episode, was it Colorado and that couple that had the uh >> Oh, the Miller Ranch.
>> Yeah, the Miller Ranch. So you had findings that were I think was it the bridge or was it >> Yeah. So talk a little bit about that how the parallels the findings on the ranch.
>> God, I’m glad you thank you for bringing that up because >> because you know it’s an obvious question I get is, you know, have you ever seen these type of returns before?
Yes, once at Miller Ranch in southern Colorado. Um, so there’s a bridge there.
Uh, I’m pretty sure it’s Highway 350.
It’s aptly named. This bridge goes across the Purgatory River. And this the history of the bridge is there’s been an extraordinary number of fatal accidents on this bridge going back like 80 years.
And there’s this really sweet couple, the Millers, who basically owned the property in and around the bridge, um, uh, who basically said, “Hey, you know, come bring your stuff.” And, you know, let’s try to get some answers. And of course, the production production company, the Beyond Skin War folks say, “Yeah, let’s go.” So, yeah, I saw return. It’s the only other place where I’ve seen returns underground.
>> And the photogometric um results were just bizarre.
Just a mess. I mean, the model looked like a Picasso. It just didn’t make any sense at all. Um, and then, oh my gosh, if and again, I can just hear that, you know, the debunker is just Anyway, we’re doing so we’re at the Miller’s home on their ranch, which is, you know, a quarter mile from the bridge, and we’re doing the data review, and it’s organic.
It’s real. It’s just like the Skinwalker ranch. There’s no script. Nobody says, “Hey, Pete, here’s your line.” It it is organic. It’s real. The cameras are rolling. You you you you get it in basically real time anyway.
And I set up my laptop. The Millers are sitting next to me and I’m okay. Um I’m dying to show you the LAR. And as soon as I said the word LAR, the lights in their house go off.
And you hear the crew and the director and everybody sort of freaking out.
What? You know, did that just happen?
You was, okay, again, could it be a coincidence?
Sure. Of course, we have to consider that, but that was just crazy. I want to say it happened a second time as well.
>> It did.
>> I watched it. did on the episode of >> D cuz I remember that was I just remember what Yeah, that was that and that that’s a crazy place. And yeah, I will tell your viewers, please be kind to the Millers because it’s a state highway. It’s not fenced. There’s not security. Anybody can go there, but just, you know, don’t go knock on their door. They’re really sweet people.
>> They really are. And I saw I saw uh years ago uh the Millers um talking about their experiences where >> uh he went to lay down on his bed >> and listen if you see them they’re salt of the earth. I mean you see them and they have you could just tell there is zero motivation from these people to to say anything. and his bed starts shaking like there’s an earthquake and these two red orbs come up to his window and they also had the cattle mutilations.
>> Yep.
>> Um and this isn’t something that happened like we had this one incident.
It’s an ongoing thing with them and they’ve still been trying to get to the bottom of it. But the most comprehensive technology investigation was when you went out there and so I was excited to watch that and I was freaked out not only by the findings you had under that bridge. And this bridge they test what may be causing people to have all these fatal accidents, but it’s not like there’s three. It was like dozens. It’s a lot. It’s crazy. And then the uh the lights uh when you’re in there >> and hearing the uh a little panicky production team because it kept happening and it happened in moments when you’d say something and all a sudden a light would go out and it wasn’t like oh the lights just dimmed and flickered and went out. They were like randomly popping out.
>> So it was wild. Wild.
>> Yeah, it it was wild. And I you know I’ll I’ll interject a selfish desire of mine.
You know, I How cool would it be? This is not a promise. This is not violating an NDA. This is just Wouldn’t it be cool if we could do an experiment at Skinwalker Ranch and at Miller Ranch at the same time?
>> Yeah.
>> And, you know, have teams basically to take, you know, what we’re doing at Skinwalker and, you know, take it on the road. I mean, kind of like the Beyond Skin worker folks have done. But I’m sad to say, I heard a rumor, I don’t know whether this is true. I heard a rumor that Beyond is not going to be renewed this year.
Actually, Brandon mentioned that on an insider uh webinar just last week, I think. Um but I heard that and I was, you know, I wanted to say to Brandon like, “Well, let’s take this on the road.” >> Yeah. Let let’s do let’s let’s do an experiment at Miller and Skinwalker at the same time. We’ve got good Wi-Fi, you know. Wouldn’t that be interesting? So, >> I think that would be awesome. And I’ve someday I don’t know, I’ve got a uh a location >> near Mount Shasta. And so, just just so you know, I’ve I’ve done some films and I’ve done a lot of crazy places. is a conjuring house, Indian reservations in the Midwest. And I was introduced to somebody who I’m going to have on the show next week that’s a uh a researcher that knew Stanton Freriedman who was p since past and Kathleen Martin. Um talked to this lady who has I think it’s like 400 acres outside of Mount Chasta.
beautiful property and it’s generational >> and her she’s late 70s so if we’re going to do it I have to do it at some point but >> her father when they were young and mother were just building out there and they would talk about hiding their food up in trees because something would be stomping around that literally shook the ground >> almost like a Bigfoot type thing >> and if you look I’ve got an aerial picture of the house and they always said oh there’s these petro petroglyphs or whatever. And in my mind, I’m thinking of a painting on a rock. No, it’s a it’s like the one at Skinwalker.
It’s an ancient Indian one that’s like 20 by 20 >> right across from the house.
>> And of all the things she talked about, some of the more anomalous ones were like skinwalker, things were going really weird. She grabs the kids. She drives into town, little town.
She goes into a restaurant and it’s open, but there’s nobody in there. She goes to the bathroom with the kids, leaves, and then when she leaves, the room’s full of people from a different time period. Not like not like 1920s, but maybe just a different what they’re dressing and they don’t see them. They’re not acknowled acknowledge them, >> but they talk about time time slips, >> craft, all these things that, >> you know, there’s got to be other areas, right? And I think if you did a uh >> investigations where you tied into the ranch and that parallel at the same time would be actually amazing >> to see that at some point.
>> Well, hey, James, put it together. I’ll I’ll show up.
>> Yeah. Listen, and I’ve got uh Jim Sagala with his uh Mupass device. Uh are you familiar with that at all?
>> No.
>> Okay. He was on the he was the first season as a chief scientist on the show, but Jim is a scientist and he’s created a device that uh would be very beneficial in tracking multiple locations at the same time. And he’s got them all over the world now.
>> So, some point we’ll have to uh put a band together.
>> I’m in. I’m in, you know, if it if it leads to some some clarity, I’m I’m all for that.
>> Um, so, and I I before before we wrap, I I wanted to ask a couple things. First, >> Mhm.
>> you’ve been there six years now. You described the entry point where you’re the eye rolling skeptic.
H how how would you say you’ve changed in the six years as far as even your belief system, who you are, and what you’re about?
Um well it’s I believe that um being humbled is a really healthy experience cuz humility isn’t exactly in vogue, right?
>> Yeah. Um so that this is hard for me because um my my faith is just that it’s mine. It’s deeply personal. Um so that’s that’s where my head goes.
It’s I think, you know, be being humbled, being confronted with no explanation. You It’s kind of what I touched on a little while ago. What, you know, what are you going to do with that personally? How are you going to react to that? Um, so it how can that not open your mind, right?
How can that not? Um, it touches on, you know, is this all there is? Um, is everything explainable?
Is everything, you know, is is science, you know, all is cracked up to be? You know, what what else could there might there be? Um, I actually have grown to love that. M >> um earlier I guess in my career or my life I’ve always loved disruptive science meaning some breakthrough some discovery happens and the narrative changes you know like 90° I love when that happens like way back when when I was in college you know it was just assumed that the dinosaurs went extinct because of climate change. Well, then they find the meteor impact in the Yucatan Peninsula and everything changes. I love when that happens.
But I’ve grown to love all that. That’s not necessarily required, right? To be open to other possibilities, if if I can put it that way. It just it how how can you not be humbled? How can your mind not be opened? How can you not like say I don’t care how crazy your theory is, you have my attention.
>> Sure.
>> That’s how it’s changed me. It’s it’s it’s um I’m I’m willing I’m leaning in, right? I’m not doors don’t slam shut in me um due to arrogance or you know I think I’ve got it all figured out or you know whatever.
It’s it’s just a it’s that place has humbled me and I’m frankly grateful.
It’s been a good experience and it continues to just sort of you know don’t go there. You know I’ll humble you again. you know, you better take a few steps back, take a few breaths. And it’s it’s great. And it’s also hanging with the guys, you know, again, I can’t speak for everybody else, but there’s, you know, we talk about we have we dance around this conversation that I’m struggling with right now a lot. And you know, it’s amazing to have kind of a support group like that because, you know, here here we are, >> you know, chasing stuff we can’t explain. You know, thank God there’s the camaraderie. You know, I’m so fortunate to have these guys to be going through this with them cuz I can’t imagine going through it by myself or, you know, so um I hope that answers your question.
>> No, it does. It sounds like a shift a shift in perception on what’s possible where before you came in saying a preconceived notions in certain areas of science. I know what’s possible and it’s like this bucks the whole system. Um, okay. Last thing I want to ask you as far as um, personally, you mentioned earlier when I said the what do you think you’re dealing with and and the what you answered with time and I love love the answer very compelling. So, when we’re talking about the mechanics of what may be happening there, your final thoughts on who do you think you’re dealing with there? An an intelligence. What’s your what’s your personal thoughts on who you’re dealing with out there?
You know, there there are times when it feels like a who.
Um, you know, we do something and then the spectrum analyzer goes off. You know, it almost feels like, you know, the kids game of telephone. It almost feels like somebody’s trying like interaction.
And, you know, that’s Wow. Wouldn’t that be Wouldn’t that be amazing, right?
Amazing. It would change It would change everything.
Everything.
Um, so and you know I I told you a little few minutes ago that you know I’ve been out there by myself just screaming at the sky, you know, hoping somebody something evoke evoke a a response cuz so much of what goes on at the ranch is trying to do exactly that. I just remember being out there by myself and well what if I you know I’ll say something nice I’ll say something not so nice you know whatever I’ve tried all kinds of things so you know that’s clear evidence that for me personally wouldn’t it be great if it was a who you know wouldn’t it be great you know wild speculation that time is involved and you know the former military guy I can’t remember his Alexander some John Alexander.
>> Yeah. He looks right at the camera and you know they ask him, “So, what’s going on at the ranch?” And he doesn’t even blink. He goes, “It’s the portal.” >> Wow. Okay. You know, when I first heard that, I was like, “Oh my god, this guy needs to be on he needs to up his meds.” But, you know, six years later, I’m going, “H, okay.” But wouldn’t that be great if it’s someone is knocking on the door and the other can’t answer or can’t find the door knob? I mean, you know, whatever.
So, I I sure there’s a part of me that would just absolutely welcome a that would just talk about disruptive science or just disruption in general.
You know, bring that. Let’s go. Um I think I think a lot of us would just love that. Welcome that.
>> Yeah, absolutely. And I think with all that’s going on, stay tuned is the best I guess we could tell anybody, right?
Stay tuned. So, lastly, you can close us out. Anything you tell the viewers, I know the new season’s coming up and anything you’ve got going on personally with websites or, you know, this is your chance to do a little self-promotion if you want to that we could point you to.
Yeah.
>> Well, my website is vcttoolabs.com.
That’s Victor Charlie Tango Oscarlabs.com.
Uh, you know, I’ve got a calendar, you know, page up there that tells where I am and what I’ll be doing. Um, in terms of uh season 7, buckle up. It’s uh it’s it’s well, come on. Yan Frank, Chris Roberts. Uh oh my gosh. I I I have to be careful.
But it’s um actual discovery.
>> I’ll just put it like that.
Um, you’re folks are going to see some things that just are will be worth your while. Let’s put it that way. It’s um um it’s it’s it’s exciting. It’s uh I every morning I wake up and hope there’s going to be something in my feed or in my inbox saying season 7, you know, is going to debut the first week of June or whatever, but we don’t know yet. You know, this is that agonizing time of year when >> we wait, which isn’t my best skill. So yeah, just season 7 will not will not disappoint.
Anybody who knows the show knows that, you know, if you looked at the seasons on a graph, you know, to me, it’s just keeps getting more compelling as the team, you know, zeros in on the scent. I don’t know how else to put it, the trail, right? the the path to discovery. It’s exciting stuff. You won’t be disappointed.
>> Awesome. Awesome. Well, listen, I can’t thank you enough. I could sit here literally all day and talk with you. So, we we want to have you back. Uh I I’ve gotten a number of folks that have been gracious enough to come on this the show and it’s interesting to hear everybody’s different perspective from what they do.
But, uh >> everybody stay tuned. I think it’ll be May or June. I’m I’m pretty confident it’ll come out then and uh fingers crossed. But listen, thank you for your time and we’ll definitely be in touch soon.
>> Great. Thanks so much, James. Been a pleasure.
>> Likewise. Thanks, Pete.