You know, there’s been so much discussion in public on Twitter, social media, about whether skinwalker is legit, whether it’s worth studying. You know, the AWSAP program was based in part on experiences that happened there, and a concern whether or not there are legitimate national security interests. Is it just a mystery, a paranormal mystery, or is it a national security matter?
Well, I can tell you this, George, and this is the part that really scares me the most: GPS signals over the ranch, and sometimes it stops at the fence line on the ranch, not just in the region. They get jammed and stop working and even are spoofed to make vehicles think that they’re underneath the surface and not where they are. This could cause airplanes to crash. We’ve actually had drones crash because of this many times, and these aren’t just little cheap drones. I’m talking $50,000 drones, and that is a dangerous thing. If someone has a technology that can do that, they could pick a region and make GPS quit functioning. Then you’re going to have airplanes that could crash, automated drones that are going to crash, vehicles that follow GPS systems. I mean, there’s so many things that could affect. If it can do that to GPS, it can do that to other things. This is a capability that’s happening—some kind of phenomenon that’s happening that could potentially be a threat. Multiple phenomena, and seemingly intelligent, right? It’s an intelligence of some sort.
Well, if it’s not intelligent, it’s very serendipitously random because it’ll change in a way that’s going to funnel what your plans are. A perfect example is, we’ll do experiments, and right when we start to—everything’s working fine, perfectly with the equipment—and right when we’re ready to say, “Okay, we’re going to take data now,” a battery will die, or a piece of equipment will malfunction, or the memory cards will quit working.
Another perfect example is there was one particular time when I was on the ranch and we got cameras everywhere, and every time that I stepped in front of one of these cameras for 40-something seconds, the cameras went black. So there’s 40-something seconds where I’m doing things that there’s no record of because the cameras still recorded, but they blacked out and the audio quit. The same kind of thing happened to NIDS, the Bigelow organization privately that was there. It happened during OSAP, but they didn’t have the kind of cameras that you guys have. One great contribution of the TV show is you’re able to demonstrate those small little things that happen all the time—compasses go crazy, batteries die—that nobody has ever been able to prove all the time.
I mean, we have multiple— all of us carry compasses, we have compasses on our phones, and we’ll pull them out when things are happening, and they’ll be spinning or they’ll turn in a completely wrong direction. And at the same time, the cows will be going crazy. You know, I can’t explain all that. Can you explain the physics of the hitchhiker effect? I know people find that just too far out. You’ve experienced it yourself.
Yeah, and you know, we’re always nervous about talking about the hitchhiker effect because we might stimulate it. We don’t know what causes it, but could there be a physics explanation? Well, if it’s maybe functioning through quantum physics, there’s a possibility of quantum entanglement—that somehow whatever describes our consciousness, which is most likely a quantum phenomenon, gets entangled with whatever the phenomena is. So wherever you go, you’re still connected to it. And that sounds hokey, but it’s called the quantum measurement problem. A lot of scientists are studying it in great detail, and there’s been some Nobel Prize nominations for the topic. So I think that could be an explanation, or at least somewhere in the ballpark.
You’ve had things happen on the ranch that are creepy. I mean, inexplicable, call it paranormal, but it’s happened. It’s real, right?
Yes, very. In fact, one—it’s almost like what you would call stigmata—that happened to me. We had a rabbi out do a ritual that was supposed to summon an opening to heaven, which, or like a portal is what you would describe it as, down at Homestead 2. When we did the ritual, a thermal vortex appeared in the middle of Homestead 2. We got that on clear data, and it was repeatable. We played an audio recording of the chant back, and it happened again.
Well, when the rabbi was there that night, he told me off-camera, he came to me and said, “Travis, they said they’re going to come to you tonight.” And I’m like, “What are you talking about?” He said, “Well, they’re going to come see you.” I said, “Who’s they?” And the rabbi said, “Well, whoever it is that’s here.” I thought he was messing with me.
Well, that night I had a dream. I was in my trailer, and my trailer doors were locked and everything. I had a sort of a waking dream that the trailer door opened, and my bedroom door slid open, and a native walked in to my bedroom—an old, really old native. He looked at me, shook his head, and reached out and touched me on the face right there. Then he shook his head and walked away. I woke up startled, went to the bathroom, splashed water on my face to get my bearings, and when I looked in the mirror, I was bleeding from that spot. I had a sore appear there and it stayed for several days, and that was bizarre to me. I can’t explain. You could probably explain why a bug bit me or something, or I swatted myself, but it didn’t look like that. It looked like somebody really pressed me really hard right there.
You’ve taken it home with you, haven’t you?
Oh, I have seen some things. Some things, like my car has started and stopped itself. Sometimes the electronics will weird for no reason, and then they’ll be fine. I’ve actually had that happen once, driving out of my driveway. My car just turned itself off, and I just happened to get out because I was wondering, just, you know, curiosity. I thought, well, if I’m at the ranch, I’m going to get out and start looking around. So I got out of the car and I looked up and there was an odd vortex in the clouds above my house when this happened. I can’t explain that. I’m just saying those are correlated events. I don’t have any other data to go along with that, but that’s a weird piece of data. But when I got back in the car, it cranked right up.
I guess the correlation would be what other people have reported. I mean, a lot of people who’ve been at the ranch have taken things home—pretty frightening things that, you know, it lasts for a long time.
Yeah, I’ve talked with a lot of people who were there during the Bigelow era and then people that have been out there now, and many people have strange things happen at home that can’t be explained. They see things, things happen, things fail. They have actual things move in their house that they don’t remember moving. So mine hasn’t gotten that bad, but I do have weird spooky things happen occasionally.
Is there overlap of when you’re working on the TV show, and then you learn there was this awesome program that did a big study and produced a lot of reports? Are you able to go look at that stuff? Are you able to, hey, I’m going to go seek out the guys who did this study so I can find out if you’ve got clearance, you’ve got security clearances, maybe you could see it?
Yeah, and of course, I couldn’t talk about the details of any of that, but of course, I mean, anybody with any sense, right, if they have access to read information about this weird stuff that’s happened to them, they’re going to go read the information. So I can tell you that I’ve asked the people who know and have been briefed as much as people know about it. I think some of the information, though, Mr. Bigelow kept to himself, and so we haven’t been privy to that particular information.
You know, the NIDS guys go in—Bigelow in his organization—and they’re drawn by flying saucers, UFOs. They go in there, they’re going to study that, but they find all this other stuff, and they really don’t have a battle plan for how to go after it. I mean, they did some basic stuff. They looked for geomagnetic anomalies, they looked for psychoactive plants maybe that were causing hallucinations, and when they started ruling those things out, then they tried to interact with it. Is there a battle plan that works for this? I mean, we’ve talked before about this. You, in essence, poke the bear. Hey, let’s try this, see what happens.
I don’t know what else to do other than try a stimulus and look for a response because it’s so strange. It’s not your typical mix this chemical and that chemical and you get this reaction. In this case, you can mix this chemical and that chemical, and depending on the day, you get a completely different reaction. So what I’m trying to do, and with Eric and the other guys out there, is we do as many different experiments that might stimulate something across all the physical spectrum of stimulus—electromagnetic, magnetic, gamma rays, actual particle radiation, rockets, digging, drilling. You name it, anything we can think of—we’re trying to see if we do this, this happens. Hard to predict, though. Almost every time, something different happens. But we have narrowed down the one thing that seems to happen all the time, and actually, it’s really two things. In between 80 and 90% of the cases of experiments that we do, when a phenomena occurs, we are measuring microwaves and we are measuring gamma rays. So I find that telling. What it’s telling me yet, I don’t understand, but it’s happening all up very frequently, the radiation exposure.
So, you get exposed to radiation. You had serious effects, health effects?
Yeah, they didn’t show the details of it on the show because, you know, it’s a little bit eerie, a little bit personal too, but it actually caused me some medical issues. I saw two or three different doctors about it. I’m fine now. While I am going to be watching for future markers of leukemia or cancer, things, but I don’t think the dose was big enough for that. But I had the classic symptoms of radiation sickness—dark urine, burn marks, and I had some temporary hair loss. It took me six months, almost a year, to get completely over it, but I wasn’t expecting anything like that. The weirdness was there were people as close to me as you, and they were wearing radiation dosimeters as well. Theirs were fine. How could it? Radiation doesn’t work that way—or at least, as far as we know. So while mine went off and I get the dose, people right next to me didn’t. Whatever the source of radiation was, it wasn’t there after a while. The next day, we had a special contractor group that does this for the Navy on new vehicles come out and look and scour the ranch for any sources of radiation. There was no source of radiation there. But since then, we have measured transient high doses of radiation in specific locations, and we only have a handful of dosimeters and gamma-ray detectors. For us to find it just by placing one—I’ll just put one out in the field, see what happens today—and it happened, that’s really odd. The odds of you hitting that—that’s like hitting the game-winning shot every single time from the other team’s baseline.
I don’t want to give away the season that’s underway right now, but I mean, there are a lot of fairly dramatic things and experiments that you try that did generate reactions.
Yeah, we actually did multiple stimuli at a time this year, and sometimes we saw some very amazing things and got some very amazing footage and data simultaneously. You know, the things that have aired, we could talk about, you know, where we had telescopes that were—the databases inside the telescopes were erased real-time while we were watching them. There’s no mechanism for that. If I wanted to do that, I don’t even know how to reverse-engineer that phenomenon. Then the same night, we had a sphere fly over the ranch that was unmistakably an unidentified flying object—not just some aerial phenomena. So it was absolutely incredible.
Where does it come from and where did it go? That’s the very interesting question. You know, we had cameras going, but suddenly, it’s just there, and it’s flying on the ranch. It does a thing, and then suddenly, it’s not there. So where did it go? Where did it come from? I don’t know.
Is part of your interest in the ranch, I mean, as a scientist, you want to figure this out. Is it also fun? Is it fun?
It’s adventurous, it’s the right way to say it. It’s fun like, you went through something like an adventure movie. It was scary at the time, but when you look back on it, it was an amazing experience that you got to do.
